Navigating Today’s World, How Young Christians Think, Discern and Respond Ernie K, Tim M, Russ M

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The title, I should say the topic of the panel discussion this afternoon is Navigating Today’s How Young Christians Think, Discern and Respond. So that’s a pretty broad thought, and we covered some of this in our service this morning, but this time with relative to the panel discussion, Brother Ernie, Brother David, Brother Russ, we have some questions for them. We kind of collected a group of questions over the last year or so from the younger brethren and we compiled that list, and so we’ve been kind of working from that.

So we pulled six questions, six questions from that list, and so we’ve asked the brethren three, I’m sorry, two, two and two. They’re going to have some thoughts on those questions, and I think we’re going to put the questions up here, certainly read them before we get started, and then we’ll go for 10 minutes.

So one question will be 10 minutes. So we have 60 minutes. The total meeting is an hour and a half. So if we have some extra time, if there’s some questions that you have or the Brethren have, we’ll certainly entertain those where and when we can. Okay, so that’s kind of the ground rules for the panel discussion.

But please also understand that this panel discussion is open ended. If you have questions or concerns or different thoughts, reach out to us, reach out to anybody here, and this is, this is ongoing. Whatever we can do to help, please let us know. So that’s kind of what I have to say or what I have to get started.

What I would like is for brother Ernie, brother David and brother Ross just to give us a brief introduction of themselves and their thoughts relative to what we’re going to talk about. So brother Ernie, we’ll start with you, please. Okay, well, I’m been in Orlando since 1973, but I actually grew up in Detroit in the, in the 1950s and 60s, and actually that time brother Tim was part of the same class that I belonged to, except he was a much younger. I don’t know about that.

But you know, you know, at that time Detroit was a really large class and there’s probably 100, 150 in it. I don’t remember, I didn’t count them. But actually that is where my family on both sides came to know the truth. I’m a third generation Bible student on both my dad’s side and my mom’s side. My dad’s family came from northwestern Ohio.

They were a farming family, but they came to Detroit in the depression years because that’s where the jobs were. On my mom’s side, she Came from a small coal mining town in southwestern Pennsylvania. Also my family, she migrated to Detroit. That’s where my two parents met. They were part of the Ecclesiastes.

So that’s where they met. So we’re very. We’re very thankful for that, and so I was interested, you know, I was raised in the church. Really wasn’t terribly interested into it until I got to graduating from high school.

I met my wife, Janice. We. We basically courted for the four years I went to college. We got married. We got.

Well, the day after I graduated from college, I packed all my belongings and a little trailer, you know, and we went to Florida, and I’ve been there ever since. It’s been a great blessing. Been part of the Orlando acoustic. We’ve had lots of brethren that are highly respected, that were in there, both not only elders, but, you know, class members who were great examples to me.

And I have hopefully benefited from that, you know, and I think these questions are interesting because, you know, I can kind of see in them some of the things that I faced as I was new in the truth, appreciating it and seeing how brethren navigated differences of opinions and those types of things. So that’s kind of why I’m, and that’s kind of why I picked up the questions I picked. Thank you, brother. Appreciate that.

Okay, thanks. I appreciate Brother Ernie’s thoughts, and yeah, we did grow up. I was a little bit younger than Brother Ernie that was in the Detroit class. But I really appreciate his leadership and throughout the year.

So it’s been a blessing, and Brother Ernie brings up a good point. We all have stories, you know, for the younger brethren. We were all young once too, and I think that’s important. So that’s what we want to try to do is share some of those experiences today that we’ve had and shared it with you.

So I’ll ask Brother David. Quick intro, please. Okay. Thank you, Brother Tim, and dear brethren, I come from the Allentown Ecclesia class.

My wife and I have been in the truth since 1975. I wasn’t raised in the truth, although I am a second generation Bible student. My dad was in the Truth before I was, and he was certainly paved the way for me to get. To get the truth. A quick family bio.

We’ve got five children, 12 grandchildren and four great grandsons. So the Lord has blessed us very much in those things.

I came out of jehovah’s witnesses in 1975. The story is a little more interesting than that, but that’s When I left witnesses and join the Bible Students Association. Bible student is a functional term, not a denominational term. It describes what we do. But I’ve really appreciated the fellowship.

The subject for our panel on young people is very important to me. Having raised five children, we confronted some of the things in that generation, I think it’s much worse today, but that were detrimental to my children. When my first two sons graduated high school, you saw the effect of the world on them, the effect of the philosophy, philosophers and philosophies of the world, the secular thinking, and we made a decision at that time. We were pulling our kids out of school for that reason.

And we homeschooled three younger children. We wanted more control over what they learned and how they learned it. One of the important things that we taught our children was critical thinking. This is the homeschooled version is now true. I don’t know that critical thinking is taught in the schools today, but critical thinking is a very important part of being able to distinguish between what’s right and what’s wrong, what’s true and what’s false.

And in the homeschooling, you know, we talked about some of the secular ideas like evolution. We didn’t ignore it. We grappled with it and we demonstrated what it said and we also demonstrated why we thought it was incorrect. Maybe I’ll be saying a little bit more of that later. So I think it is very important for us to look at our young children now.

For me, it’s these grandchildren and our great grandsons aren’t in school yet, although one will be in another year, and I want to impart the same type of critical thinking in my grandchildren as well quite have the control since they’re grandchildren and not children. But we can still amount an influence. The world is filled with evil influences and lies, and as parents or grandparents, we want to protect our families from these things.

Young people are particularly vulnerable to that. I left the Catholic Church when I was in 10th grade for two reasons. Number one, even at 15 years old, I saw the hypocrisy of it. I used to go to a class, a religious class at the church and the priest would be there smoking, right? And I joking, you know, and I said to my mom, I’m not going back there anymore.

And I also had a biology teacher who was an evolutionist and he filled my mind and it seemed very, very convincing. So I just sort of left religion completely behind. That is the influence of lies and secular thinking that we need to protect our children with at. At that Time I didn’t know anything about creationism or intelligent design. I had nothing to combat it with.

And I was left alone as it were, with these, with the teachers there that had a very secular attitude. So I think this panel is going to be very important. It was going to give a lot of practical information and review ideas that we can use to combat the extraordinary amount of error that the world targets our less experienced young people, and the truth that we can share with them can be demonstrated. It’s not just a matter of arbitrary faith, you know.

Well, this is just the way it is. No, we have evidence for it. We’re going to talk more about that later. Thank you. Brother David, Brother Russ, tell us a little bit about yourself, please.

Well, some of mine background is going to sound a lot like brother Ernie’s. I’m a third generation Bible student as well, and one of the greatest blessings of my life is marrying sister camille of over 51 years ago, and it’s been a, it’s been a joy ever since.

My mother, my mother was not in the truth. My dad brought her into the truth, and so the, the history of our journey is our family’s journey into the truth starts with his mother, my grandmother, Elsie Peters.

She lost her firstborn daughter to appendicitis at the age of seven. Now this was before the age of, before penicillin had ever been used for the defeating of infection. So that was part of the reason she, she died, and my grandmother could not accept what the Lutheran church was telling her about life after death, the prospects of heaven and their perspective on hell as well. Fortunately, well in the Lord’s providence for her.

There was a sister Xuan who lived on her block or maybe a block away and came to comfort her. Not necessarily to witness, but to comfort her about the loss of her daughter and thief. Then grandma brought up the, the issue of life after death and what, what they believe in. Sister Schwann, witness to her grandma relatively quickly embraced the truth and they and then convinced her husband, my grandfather of it as well. But the experience wasn’t over for them even they both consecrated.

And within about three or four years my grandfather died again of appendicitis, and so grandma was a single mom of three before, before that phrase was, was fashionable. But the Lord provided for them. My uncle, brother Jim Martin, you’re probably familiar with him. He consecrated young.

My dad had a family and a wife to think about and he didn’t. He was a staunch defender of the truth. We went to meetings every Sunday, but he didn’t consecrate till the late 60s.

And he served as an elder in Chicago for about 40 years, and it’s still an inspiration to me. I have a copy of all his old discourses and I use them for reference. I use them to listen to and I use them to keep my mind on the Lord. I appreciated his service as well, personally myself.

I was an elder in Chicago for over 20 years and now over 10 years. So it’s about 30 years out here in Washington where Ernie packed up and went to see Janice. Camille packed up and lived with me in Chicago, and then she wanted to be near her grandchildren and we. Well, we wanted to be near our grandchildren especially.

And so we made the move to Washington where our oldest son and his two children live, even though we left our youngest son who wasn’t. Didn’t have any children at the time. Now he has. We have a grandson in Milwaukee as well. So we do a lot of trips back to the Midwest.

But we, we’ve appreciated how the Lord led. Led the various parts of the family in the truth and, and, and provided for our growth. We especially appreciate growing up in Chicago like, like Detroit was. Chicago was a very large ecclesia as well. By growing up, we had two, three day and typically served 400 brethren for lunch and dinner at those meetings.

The class was large enough to accommodate that and the. I mean, to provide the necessary labor for that, and the Brethren came and we housed almost all of the Brethren within the homes. There weren’t. Hotels weren’t as convenient as they are today.

So we appreciated that. We especially appreciated the others that provided for our spiritual growth in those years before I became an elder and even after, and so I think I’ll stop there. Needless to say, we’re. The three of us over here are baby boomers.

And despite Tim’s protest of being old in his discourse, I remember calling him Timmy a long time so. But we appreciate Brother Tim’s service both this morning and throughout his service of the brother. Thank you. Thank you, Brother Russ. Appreciate the kind of intro and overview of the three Brethren.

It’s a privilege to be with you on this panel. I think for the younger brethren, and I consider anyone young at heart young. So keep that in mind. But you know, there’s a lesson here just with this introduction is everyone has a story, the Brethren all have stories.

And take a moment if you’re. If you have a chance, sit down with a brother or sister and just say, tell me your story, and I think you’ll really appreciate what they have to tell you. So anyway, we’re going to get started with our first question, and that goes to Brother Russ.

And that question is what should we do when something in the scriptures or about God’s plan doesn’t make sense to us? Should we let it crush our faith and give up? Should we study it, ask questions and pray about it or should we ask AI?

Let’s ask Brother Ross, please. I chose this question because of the content of it and I’m going to rearrange the question just slightly because I’m an engineer, I’m technical, I’m detail oriented and this is how it best makes sense to me. The question, you know, again is what should we do when something in the scriptures or the truth, God’s plan, doesn’t make sense to us? And below it are three suggestions as to what we should do with it. So I’m going to take them in slightly different order than the questioner.

The first is let it crush our faith and give up. Now, of course, that’s not an answer any of us would subscribe to and I don’t suspect any of the brethren would give it any consideration, and we’ll get to kind of the answer to the total question a little bit later. But it does bring up a key issue and that is what do we do about doubts and in, in what we believe? And we will always say to ourselves and to our brethren that yeah, we, we, we believe the scriptures wholeheartedly.

We believe in God’s plan and leave it at that. But in reality, in the times when we meditate, when we think alone and maybe some of our experiences are not what we think they should be, doubts creep in.

I was sitting with an elder. I was, when I was a deacon in the Chicago class, we had the, we had a young people’s committee, we handled the teenagers and we would have a seminar in this summer seminar every year, and so there was an elder, a very well respected elder. I’ll tell you who he was a little bit later. But we were sitting, the kids were in bed and the two of us were in a different cabin talking.

And he said to me, brother Russ, you know, there are some times when I have doubts. He said, not just doubts about this scripture or that scripture, but total doubts. Have we just, you know, just taken what’s in the scriptures and built this framework around it and it’s, it’s not really true, you know, And I was flabbergasted. I had looked up to this elder for years and it’s, I was flabbergasted not that he had doubts, but that he was willing to tell me he had doubts because I could identify with exactly what he told me, and I think that’s what this question brings up.

And now I’ll tell you who that elder was, because you’ll probably be shocked. That was Brother Carl Hagenseg, and if there’s anyone that you would probably say would never have any doubts about the truth, you would think of Brother Carl. But we appreciated that, and that was one of the strongest evenings to my faith that I’ve ever existed, that I’ve ever experienced.

I shouldn’t say just ever experienced. So we appreciate that about Brother Carl. He was constantly bringing up things. I was relatively close to him growing up and he was always bringing up things like that and putting me on the spot even before I was consecrated. He was very close to the teenagers at that time.

All right, so let’s pass on beyond that. Ask AI is the other proposition, and talking with Brother Raphael at lunchtime about kind of about this general topic of AI, the answer to this is an unconditional no. There’s, there’s going to be no. Right?

We don’t ask AI about things, things that require spiritual insight, because we have to remember that even though they want you to believe that it’s the computer telling you these things, it is really the information that’s put in, and I’ll give you a phrase that generates what you get back out and that can be influenced by the designers of the knowledge base and the model that generates the AI response. So I’ll just leave you with a thing that I learned early in my engineering career. In terms of dealing with computers. The phrase is garbage in, garbage out.

And that’s what you should keep in mind whenever you’re dealing with AI in anything but a fact or research historical kind of context, there’s a place for it, but it’s not, not in determining what our spiritual direction should be. How much time have I got, Tim? Okay, good. All right, now let’s get down to the real answer, and it was in the question, do we study it?

Do we ask questions? Do we pray about it? And of course, the answer that is the answer to the question, what do we do when we have doubts or something about what’s in the truth bothers us. One thing that’s important about the truth is remember that reasoning around the scriptures is human dependent. It takes an imperfect mind to take in the facts of the scriptures and do reasoning on it.

Most of the time we think our reasoning is very Good and very helpful. Sometimes it can be flawed and it can be flawed because of the outside influences. Our schools, our learning institutions, our jobs, our friends, they all influence the way we think, and so that’ll influence the way we deduce whether this is a problem or this explanation to that issue is reasonable. So again, the, again, the best way to do this, to answer the question is to ask questions of those who respect your elders, those who even are not elders, but are very well versed in the scriptures.

Those who have similar experiences or have gone through a similar experience, take advantage of the brethren, testify about it so the brethren can find you. You may have an experience that you’re dealing with, and if the brethren don’t know it, it’s difficult for them to help help you. It’s difficult for someone who’s had the same experience to give you advice. So even if you’re not consecrated, I would, and you’re having these kind of issues, these kind of problems, I would encourage you to testify about it to let the brethren know where you stand in your desire to live closer to the Lord.

We have to always make, make. Look at arguments that are made against the Scriptures and analyze them and discount severely the source of the information if it’s not truth related, if it’s. I’m not saying we’re not, we’re not. We don’t subscribe to a creed that’s written in the volumes and the reprints, but we do look, look at those writings as inputs to us that are given through Brother Russell, but given to us to improve our spiritual life, and so we need to use those in everything we consider.

I’ll give you just one more example and a couple more and a couple of scriptures, some of which I got from Brother Ernie’s talk this morning because they fit so well.

One of the problems you might have, an individual that authored this question may have, is, you know, why do we get this concept of God? Where does it come from? Well, Brother David’s gonna speak to that more directly, so I won’t tread on him. But I’ll bring up one example to get your mind in the proper perspective of when you’re considering the overall truthfulness of our belief. It’s an example called Paley’s Paradox, and it was penned in 1802.

This is not a new argument. He’s walking across the beach, he sees seashells, he sees sand, he sees driftwood, he sees remnants of sea creatures on the beach. These all have perfectly logical, natural explanations as to why they should be there, and he kicks some sand off and lo and behold, there’s a pocket watch there. A finely tuned pocket watch with dual movements, multiple gears, a winding mechanism, spring mechanism that powers it.

And so it picks that up and says, well, where did this come from? Did this come from natural causes? Should I look at it in the same perspective I look as the sand? Or do I say, this had to be designed, this had to be manufactured? Of course he looks at it in that perspective.

And that’s how we look at the universe. It is too finely tuned, it is too finely provided for all our needs, and we live on this little island called Earth at the edge of a galaxy, a nondescript galaxy with a nondescript sun. None of these is spectacular except the way it all works and provides for all our needs.

Hebrews 11:3. Again, brother Ernie quoted it this morning. By faith we understand that the ages have been framed by the word of God so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear, that which is seen. Everything around us is made of atoms and subatomic particles which we cannot see or appreciate. But yet he takes the smallest micro particles and builds a universe that is so large we can’t comprehend its size.

And without faith, it is impossible to be well pleasing unto him. For he that cometh to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder that seeks after him. Hebrews 11:6. I’ve got a little bit more, but I think I’m out of time, and we’ll stop there.

Thanks, Brother Russ. Appreciate the thoughts. We’re going to cut him a little bit short just to stay on track, but I encourage you, if you have questions, comments or thoughts, come see Brother Russ. Okay, that’s our first question. Going to turn over to brother David.

Brother David, how do we know that God is real? Brother David? Well, that sure is a fundamental question, isn’t it? I mean, it’s not even a biblical question. It goes down to the whole idea of the existence of reality.

How do we know God is real? The reality of God’s existence is built upon evidence. To build faith, you have to start with evidence. Otherwise you have no foundation for faith in the scientific method. If you’ve got a hypothesis that you are putting forward based upon evidence, you now gather more evidence to see whether the hypothesis is true or whether other evidence shows that it’s not true.

By the way, a scientific theory that that doesn’t have any evidence to show it’s false is not a scientific theory. Any scientific theory has to be Falsifiable is what they say shown to be false. So what evidence do we have that God exists? Well, we have two scriptures that tell us where to look about God’s existence, at least on this question. Psalm 19:1 2.

The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth forth his handiwork. We look to nature to see that God or evidence that God exists. Romans, chapter 1, verse 20. For the invisible things of him, since the creation of the world are clearly seen, Paul says, not hidden, but clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even as everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. So we have both this psalm and the apostle Paul telling us that creation testifies to the existence of God.

How so? And what else testifies to the existence of God? I’m going to list seven points here on this question. The first part of our outside of the Bible, extra biblical, and the rest are biblical, and brother Russ did step on my toes a little bit, but that’s okay because this is important for us to build faith.

The existence of the universe and the order in the universe seems to testify to a God that’s a creator. Everything is finally ordered, and it doesn’t seem like it could be accidental. For example, what they call the cosmological argument says that everything that begins to exist had a beginning of existence. Scientists found out it’s been many decades now that the universe came into existence through what they called the Big Bang, and by the way, the Big Bang was originally a derogatory term made by a scientist who had another idea.

It turns out it’s true. The universe had a beginning, just like the Bible said. The beginning God made right. Now we’re attributing the existence of the universe to God. But science says that it had a beginning.

A beginning of space, beginning of time, beginning of energy. You know, we don’t often think about time as having a beginning, but space time, the sciences have shown, are connected, and the faster you go, the slower time goes. So it’s not an independent outside of every other measurable. It changes as well.

So if the universe began to exist, we have to assume that there was a first cause, something that began it. Fine tuning. Brother Russ added, this is so powerful. There is something called the constants of physics. I just give you a couple of examples.

Gravity. Gravity has a. A measurable strength, and it’s universal everywhere. Electromagnetism has measurable strength. The forces that keep a nucleus and an atom together, the strong and weak nuclear forces have measurable strengths.

These Are called the constants. There’s like 60 or 70 of these constants that we could. But I’m just giving these three. If you made a tiny change, and in some cases tiny means 49 decimal places all the way down. A tiny change in some of these constants, Life as we know it could not exist.

We’re talking finely tuned. We’re talking to dozens of decimal places, and a minor change disrupts everything. Now, this is a very powerful argument because the cosmologists of the world who are secular and atheistic, they’re trying hard to come up with an explanation. Because if something is tuned so wonderfully, doesn’t that indicate design?

It certainly does, and designed specifically for human life. Even more than that. By the way, their rebuttal. You’ve probably heard this is the multi universe theory, by the way, in entertainment, in Marvel movies and things like that, you have this false idea all the time of an infinite number of other universes that exist.

And they say, well, yeah, this is an infinite number, Therefore had to have just right, and we happen to be living in that one. That’s their rebuttal. So what is a simpler explanation? You ever hear of Occam’s razor? Occam’s razor is a logic tool.

It says and suggests that the simplest solution with the least amount of assumptions is probably the correct one. So what is more logical and more correct when we’re thinking about solutions? That there’s an infinite number of universes, and by the way, and the idea here, that means there’s an infinite number of you guys, but maybe you’re not married to the same person, you didn’t grow up in the same place. Every conceivable variation, they say, is an explanation.

Now, does that seem reasonable or is a more simpler explanation is that a creator designed a universe where everything was adjusted so that human beings could live? We can go on and on about that. All right, Number two, Humans almost universally recognize objective moral values exist. The idea that some things are truly right and other things are truly wrong. Regardless of opinion, there must be a transcendent source for those morals concepts like judge, justice, evil, human worth.

Even though these concepts are marred in human thinking, they exist. If morality is just a product of chemistry and evolution, it becomes very difficult to explain why certain acts are truly wrong rather than socially inconvenient. All cultures have some sense of morality. Where’d they get it from again? If man is made in the image of God, then there is that remnant in our minds, in our soul, about what is right and what is wrong even though it’s been marred by sin and imperfection.

That sort of suggests that In Romans chapter 2, verses 14 and 15, Paul says this very thing. For when gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, those not having the law to themselves in that they show the work of the law in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness with them and their thoughts one with another, accusing or excusing them, Paul says that this is, this remnant of morality is part of the creation. Number three, and Tim, if you could give me a 60 second warning. Okay.

Give you a three minute warning. Okay. Is it two minutes now? Three minutes. Oh gosh.

I’m going to go through. Okay. I got seven points. We did two. Number three.

Consciousness and human personhood. You are aware of your own existence. How’s that possible? This is consciousness, self awareness. It implies moral, but it also implies freedom of choice.

Where does that come from? Many philosophers argue that the human mind is not adequately explained by purely material processes. By the way, remember Rene Descartes? I think therefore I am. So you know that.

Number four. Let’s look at some biblical evidence. The historical case for Jesus. For Christians, the strongest evidence centers on Jesus Christ. Many non Christian historians agree on several facts.

Jesus existed, he was crucified under Pontius Pilate. His father sincerely believed. He rose from the dead and would die for that belief. Christianity spread. So there’s a historical basis skipping forward.

5. Prophecy fulfilled in scripture. Remember that the, the scripture in Isaiah talks about Cyrus. Cyrus would be this world ruler 200 years before he was born. You know the, the skeptics of the Bible, they try to say, well this was really written afterward, you know.

Well no, there’s no evidence for that going on. We can say a little bit more about that. Personal experience and transformation. We see this in every testimony meeting that we have. We see the work of God in the lives of, of our brethren.

Specific prayers being answered, lives transformed, addictions broken, Finding peace, being able to deal with the stresses of life. Where does that come from? Is that our imagination? Is that a good idea? No.

It comes from God. Number seven. The survival and influence of the Bible. The existence of the Bible itself tells us something about God’s not only wanting to show that he exists, which all creation shows, but tell us a little bit about him. The Bible has been translated into more languages than any other book in the world.

Isn’t that what you would expect if God wants a message to be given? Over 700 languages for the complete Bible, 1600 language for the New Testament and portions of it, another 3,600. These translations make the text accessible to 98% of people in the world, almost everybody, and this Bible is a collection by 40 different authors over 1500 years, and yet it shows this smooth continuity, this common theme and common message.

It is proof that God exists.

Thank you very much, Brother David. Obviously, there’s a lot more that Brother David can share, so please keep those additional comments for later. I’m going to share. One quick thing. Last year we were at the Vancouver convention, and we took a trip north up to Whistler, and it was beautiful.

So we appreciate that opportunity. So here you have a bunch of Midwesterners, flatlanders, so to speak, and we’re just sitting there just looking at the beautiful mountains and the water and the clouds, and it was just, you know, and Brother David says, God created the earth, but he didn’t have to make it so beautiful. So that’s creation, but that’s also the love of God.

So, Brother David, every morning I go out, I see a sunrise, I see a whatever creation. I think of you and I think of that beautiful Whistler Mountain range. So thank you, Brother David. Okay, we’re going to continue with Brother Ernie, and Brother Ernie’s question is we often hear the older brethren say, you need to make the truth your own.

What does that mean and how do we do it, Brother Ernie? Well, we’ll give you our definition of what it means to make the truth your own, and we find it in the words of the Apostle Paul in Colossians, the third chapter, and that passage of scripture beginning around verse 12, going to 16, 17 or 18. That’s one of our favorite passages of Scripture of all the scriptures.

And chapter three, verse 16 says, and this is from the NASB, Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you with all wisdom and teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Now, if you look at the King James, it’ll say something like, let the word of Christ live in you richly, and so our definition of making the truth your own is not just intellectual, it is letting the word of Christ live in you, and so we see there really is two steps to this. One is coming to a knowledge of the truth through, through personal and ecclesiast study, attendance at meetings and conventions, and discussing the truth with other brethren.

And then the second part of that, and perhaps the more difficult one, is the personal application of the truth in our lives. It’s transforming influence into, or being made conformable to the image of Christ. As Paul says in. Excuse me. As Paul says in Romans 8:28, Be conformed to the image of God’s Son.

So it’s not enough just to know the truth intellectually, to be well read in the Scriptures, but it is to change us, and even more than that, it is to take control of our lives. You know, what did Jesus say in John 13, verse 17? He says, if you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. So study is the first step, and the truth cannot live in us unless we know it.

And so the first process is getting the information into our minds and even more importantly, into our hearts so that it can start to work in there, and we like, we’ll start out with 2 Timothy 2:15. Very familiar scripture to Bible students. It says, study to show yourselves approved unto God. A workman.

So workman gets into the second part of it. You actually got to do something with it. A workman who needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. Now, it’s interesting that the word study actually also means diligence. So the fact is that we need to be diligent, diligent in our study of God’s word.

Now, now, think about this. You’ve got the creator of the universe, the being that’s had both the skill and the power and the wisdom to create not only the universe, but to create this p planet finely tuned for human life. But he is communicating with you. He’s taking time out of his schedule to communicate to each of us individually because he wants us to be in harmony with Him. Think about the, you know, the significance of that sort of thing.

How many earthly leaders are really concerned about us individually? And yet here we have the creator of the universe focusing on and wanting us really to be part of his family. Jeremiah 15:16. Your words were found, and I ate them, and your words have become for me a joy and a delight of my heart, for I have been called by your name, O Lord of hosts.

So, I mean, God has given us his words for us to eat them, to digest them, to bring us into harmony with him. Psalms 19, verse 7 through 11, I think is a great synopsis of the value of God’s word and why we should put in the time to study it and, and make it part of our lives.

Verse 7. The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul. The testimony of the Lord is should, is sure, making wise the simple. The precepts of the Lord are white, rejoicing the heart, the Commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes, the fear of the Lord, the reverence of the Lord is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of the Lord are true.

They are righteous altogether. They are more desirable than gold. They ask more than fine gold. They are sweeter also than honey, and the drippings of the honeycomb, moreover, more by them your servant is warned.

And keeping them is a great reward. So the fact is that the words of God, perfect, sure, right, pure, clean, righteous, true, and if we apply them in our lives, there is a great reward associated with it. Not. Not just the feeling of.

Not just, you know, the hope and comfort it brings us in this life, but an opportunity to be of more service beyond in Christ’s kingdom. Another set of scriptures that you can think about. We’re not going to quote them because probably running out of time as it is. 119 Psalm verses 33 to 40. Read that and one verse that we like.

Psalms 119. Thank you. 33 to 40. Actually there’s passages all in the 119 Psalm that was just one that we’re picking out. But I like Psalm 119:1 of one verse out of it.

Verse 54. Your statutes are my songs in the house of my pilgrimage. That’s what God wants in us. He wants his word to be our song as we go through this life. I think that’s really pretty significant how we do it.

Quickly supplement your ecclesia study with your own personal study. We’ve had several processes that brethren have suggested the volumes into. We had a couple of sisters that, that did that, you know, and they’ve done it several times, and if you haven’t been through it, I encourage you to be to go through it. But when I was in college and first coming to a knowledge of the truth truth, that’s what I did in my freshman year.

Every night I didn’t study, wasn’t enough time to do that. But I read through the volumes, you know, 10 pages a night, you know, and didn’t make it all the way through six, but I went made one through the middle of six. But that’s the way we are to familiar ourselves with the truth, you know, and you know, there’s reading plans in various Bibles you can sort of go to get familiar with. The other thing that’s very important in our study is context because we can pull Scriptures out of context and so read the manna, read the songs in the night, read the chapter, read the context, because that will tell you that will give you much More depth in terms of.

In terms of the Scriptures and what God is trying to communicate. Then there is the whole application step. You know, I like Ezra 7 and verse 10. For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to practice it and to teach his statutes and ordinances in Israel. So here’s Ezra.

He’s studying it so that he can and turn, not only tell it to somebody else, but actually practice it and have it be a blessing and a benefit in his life, and, and I like Jesus in the 15th chapter of John when he gave us the illustration of the vine and the branches, and what does he say? Verse 4.

Abide in me, and I in you. So how does Jesus abide in us? He goes on to tell us, I am the vine and you are the branches. He abides in me, and I in him bears much fruit. Well, how is that possible?

Verse 7. If you abide in me and my words abide in you, that’s how we bring forth much fruit. Taking the words into our hearts and minds and then being transformed. Because he says, if you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I’ve kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. So the fact is that Jesus abides in us by us taking his words into our hearts and our minds and then being transformed by them.

And finally we’ll just. We’re probably running out of time here almost. James 1:22, 25. Prove yourselves doers of the Word, not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he’s like a man who looks in a mirror and walks away and forgets what he looked like.

But the one who looks intently in the perfect law of love, the law of liberty, and abides in it, not having become a forgetful hero, but an effective doer. That man will be blessed in what he does.

Very good. Thank you, Brother Ernie. Brother Ernie brings out a lot of good points, and again, check in with brother Ernie if you have any questions or thoughts on making it your own. I’ll give you a couple quick comments.

Brother Ernie. It’s a process, right? You have to have a plan, right? You have to do it. You have to check.

And it’s that. I’ll say it’s that plan, do check that I talked about this morning, and it takes time. I’ll give you a personal example real quick. My mom and my dad, sister Helena and brother Tony.

Growing up, my mom was very head. She Was very scriptural, very cerebral, if that’s the right word. I remember growing up, and she would read to me constantly from Egemyers, and I’d learn the Old Testament stories, the New Testament stories. So that was one side. That was the head side.

My dad was a heart. He was a school teacher. He was a coach. I saw how he interacted with people, how he interacted with brethren, how he interacted with the young people. That was the heart.

And I struggled a little bit because for me, the truth was a little confusing. Is it head? Is it heart? I had to make it my own, and it took me a while to get there. So I was thinking, does it need to be head, or does it need to be heart?

For me, personally, I’m probably more on the heart side, but I also appreciate the head side. All right, so that’s something. You have to make it your own, and it’s a process. Ask brethren, it’s not your mom or your dad’s truth or brother Ernie’s or brother Ross or brother David’s truth. It has to be your truth, and you have to make it your own, and it’s a process.

So thank you very much, brother Ernie. Appreciate that. Moving on, brethren. Halfway home. We’re gonna move on with question number four.

This goes to our dear brother Russ. For those in school, college, high school, middle school, graduate school, how do we deal with peer pressure? How can we still reflect Jesus Christ in our lives when surrounded by those in the world? Brother Russ, I picked this question because it really spoke to me. Peer pressure is insidious.

It begins not in middle school. It begins in elementary school. It begins even before that, as soon as we have our first friends, because we are influenced by our parents from our youth on. But as soon as we have friends in the outside world, we start to hear things. We start to be pressured by them, to go along, to get along.

Peer pressure is primarily foisted upon us by those with leadership qualities. You know, there are leaders and there are followers. Probably 10 to 1 followers to leaders. I’m a follower. I was never one to take the reins of a committee or to jump out in front, said, yeah, I’ll take this out.

I’ll lead this effort.

So right away, I realized even from a young age that I’m subject to what other people want me to do with them, to be their friends, and that’s the basis of peer pressure. I don’t have peer pressure now, but I’m 75 years old, so I think what you can say is peer Pressure is most intense the younger you are and the older you get, the less of a problem it is. It never goes away. We all want to be liked.

We all want to have positive relationships with those around us. That’s a human need. That’s a human characteristic. But how do we deal with those issues of peer pressure that are not positive to our character, that cause us to do that, encourage us to do things that God would not have us to do? So that’s the crux of the question.

And again, it begins young and a lot of times we don’t. I’m going to give you a two or answer to this first question and then I’ll explain it. A two word answer in light of our previous comments is grow up.

Now that’s kind of harsh. I understand that. But that is the crux of what it takes to overcome peer pressure. We have to realize in ourselves this inborn desire to be pleasing to those around us with the desire to overcome that, with the desire to be more pleasing to the Heavenly Father and to a life of righteousness.

That’s, that’s not easy to do. I’m going to give you an example of what causes us. We don’t go linearly in the set. In other words, we’re a little bit less subject to peer pressure because we’re 10% older and then we’re even less because we’re another 10% older. It comes in fits and starts with our experiences.

I’m going to give you a couple. One experience of mine that really caused me to grow up and take more accounting of those things around me.

In high school, little high school, you’re required to register for the draft. Now, they do it automatically. It’s totally different system. But this was in Vietnam and people were getting drafted and they weren’t coming home. Matter of fact, the first job I took, I worked with a boy that was four years older than me.

He had been to Vietnam and back and told me about his two best friends that came home in a box. So it kind of struck me that, you know, this is really serious. My dad took me aside, he says, your CO file is really thin. What are you going to do about it? Or do you not feel that you are a conscience objector?

Again, grow up. This is adult stuff. This is no longer a kid having a good time, driving around in a car, working, you know, having a lot of nice friends, going to high school, grow up. So I took that experience and I don’t make a lot of changes, and what else helped me besides the Counsel of both.

This individual I met at work that foisted upon me the experiences of reality, the world I was entering as I grew up, and also my father saying, son, this is your life. This isn’t my fight for you. This isn’t my input for you. You’ve got to decide this for yourself and make it happen.

So I did, and, you know, it turned out the draft wasn’t an issue for me. I went to college, I got a Tennessee firm, and the war was over by the time I got out. Didn’t change the perspective I had at the beginning of this process. So the other thing that helped me in this experience, and I would encourage this for everyone, is to find what I would call a pure mentor.

Now what I meant, I mean by that is growing up, I brother Joe B. Is my brother in law, but he was my friend growing up. He’s about a year and a half older than me. So I respected his opinion. He had more knowledge and he had more insight.

He’s also really smart. So I really, and we would, after becoming friends, we would do things like road trips to a convention. Our fathers were nice to us. They gave us their car, one of their cars, and we would take a road trip for a weekend and go to a convention.

And there were double blessings here. The blessing of going to the convention, seeing other young people there. But the four hour, three hour drive in the Midwest, flat, flat, Midwest, driving, flowers, and just talking, talking about things that we would talk about with our parents, talking about things, experiences that we had that were either too embarrassing or where we failed and said, you know, I really wish I would handle that situation differently. They were invaluable, those kind of experiences. So I would seek those out for all our young people to find both mentors that are maybe a little more experienced peers of theirs as well as mentors in their ecclesia.

They don’t have to be elders. They have to be those that can relate to you that you can discuss it with and you don’t get that experience by not fellowshipping with them.

Older people have a misgiving about going up to young people and starting a conversation that Carl never did. Based on the experience I related to earlier. Most brethren do. But if you start talking to them, all of a sudden they’re engaged, they’re talking to you, they’re giving you the benefit of their experience. Take advantage of that.

Let’s see. Got a little out of my two. I got two minutes left. Okay.

The. How can we still reflect Jesus Christ in our lives surrounded by Those of the world, the question to ask is, who do you surround yourself with? Do you let the peers that will provide pressure to you? Are they the ones that have good moral basis and will make a leadership decision in the right direction? More often than they will make a leadership into an evil or an unrighteous condition.

I’ll stop there. But that’s. That’s the number one. A number one way to get around peer pressure is associate. Make the peer pressure toward better behavior and the less behavior.

I love Ernie’s quote of David’s words to Solomon, and you obey the God of your father. Serve him with a submissive attitude and a willing spirit. For the Lord examines all minds and understands every motive of one’s thought. If you will seek him, he will let you find him.

And I’ll close with First Corinthians 28:10, a scripture that’s familiar to all of us. Realize now that the Lord is choosing you to build the temple as his sanctuary. Be strong and do it.

Thank you, Brother Russ. I’m looking at Sister Lauren. When I was younger, we’d go to Chicago seminars, winter seminars, and her two brothers, the twins Scott and Skyler, had identical blue puffy jackets. So we had a snowball fight one time, and they somehow got me pretty well. So I was waiting for them to come out of the.

Of the door of the dorm, or not the dorm, but the camp, whatever. The only problem was is Brother Joe Megast also had a blue puffy jacket.

So he came out and I got him good, and that really kind of started the mentor, the peer mentor, and I really appreciate Brother Russ bringing that up because, again, it’s something key. So whether you’re. Whether you’re the adult or whether you’re the younger brother, try to find that relationship.

Try to find someone that you can relate to or someone that can help you, because I think that’s key. Our Lord and Savior is our greatest mentor. We understand that. But to apply it in your daily life, I think is important. One other quick thought, I think Brother Russ brought out very well as I’m thinking of the hymn all of the.

I’m sorry. All of self. None of the. Some of self. Some of the.

All of the. None of self. That’s that process. That’s that consecration, and brethren, as you move through this process of consecration, you are changing.

You are changing, becoming more Christ. Like that new creature is growing, and you know what? Those peers, those friends that you’re growing up with, they’re probably not changing. All right?

There’s a Gap growing. There’s differences. I look back on my life and I probably have maybe one, one friend from high school that I still keep in contact with my friends. Now today, right here, brethren like minds. Okay, thank you, Brother Russ.

Appreciate it, and then there were two. Brother David, question number five. Why do brethren disagree on so many things? Brother David?

Yeah, this is a question that’s really pertinent to my own experiences. JWs agree on everything. You talk to any JW, he’ll tell you exactly the same thing, whether he’s in Ecuador or Germany or anyone else, and they brag. This is a definite indicator that we are the true religion because we all agree.

Now, how does that grab you? Well, anyone that steps out of line is disease of everybody coming to the same conclusion. It’s conformity, and that’s the big problem there, coming out of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’ll tell a quick story.

The first convention I ever went to was in 1975 at the Strickland farm. Sister Cherelle was there and it was the first time that I met Brother. I had already made a consecration based upon what I read in the volumes. I didn’t have an ecclesia or anyone else. I got the truth from the volumes.

And going up there to Strickland Farm, Kathy was with me. Now, she is still sort of kind of a Jehovah Witness, but she’s already been very disappointed in the way they treated me. But she went along and she was apprehensive. But I remember talking in the car as we’re driving through the cornfields of Kansas up to Nebraska, and by the way, we had a fantastic overruling Providence.

That’s another story. I’ll tell you about it another time. But on the way up there, it was really a wonderful providence, by God. I wonder what these people are like. What are Bible students like?

I had been in Brother Fry’s home four years earlier, but that was it. I knew Brother and Sister Fry. I think I met a couple of other brethren there, but never been to an ecclesia meeting or a convention. So I went up there and of course it was a wonderful experience. But something troubled me about you people very much.

And I saw different opinions. I remember brother Tony Simonis having a rather dynamic and emotional discussion with his father in law, Brother Strickland, on some point of revelation. You know, he had one point, they were going, that bothered me. Why did it bother me? I still had the mindset of conformity, right?

I still had this idea, well, to be the truth, everybody’s got to agree. Well, I have come to appreciate how much unanimity we have that is not forced.

I would say 80, 90% of what you believe we all hold in common, not because someone told us this is the only way to think. You have drawn the conclusion on your own. Now, this doesn’t address the question why do brethren disagree on so many things? I don’t know that we disagree on so many other things. But there is disagreement within the brotherhood on some points of doctrine, on types, shadows, interpretation of revelation.

Is that a bad thing? I don’t think so. Brother Jim Parkinson used to say that if you’ve got a crowd of brethren or just a crowd, everybody agrees the same thing, and since he says it’s only one person doing the thinking, and Ben Russell talked about, you know, that we all have different heads, we have different backgrounds, different educations, different gender, different cultural ethnicities.

All of those things make us look at some of these questions a little bit differently. Now, is different bad? No, no, not necessarily. I think the problem with. With disagreements is not with the disagreement, but it’s with the division that a disagreement might call, might cause.

I think that comes down to a very personal level. I mean, there are brethren in the truth that I know of that I can discuss points of disagreement with them and have a wonderful conversation. I also know there are some brethren. I don’t dare discuss a difference because it would flare up. So I respect that.

But disagreements are not in of themselves. It is what happens when we have a disagreement that’s very important. Where do disagreements come from? Well, we study different things. Sometimes there’s disagreement over substance, sometimes a disagreement over an interpretation of something, sometimes a disagreement over application.

Brother Russell had several things to say about that I’m going to recommend. I’m not going to read it because of the time. The sixth volume, page 241 and 242. Brother Russell indicates there that there should be no splits or divisions. But he also says that one of the remedies for splits in the division is more liberty to be afforded to each other.

You might say that sounds contradictory. If I’ve got more liberty so that I can maybe draw a conclusion different than Brother Ernie, isn’t that a problem? Well, Brother Russell says no, and it’s only a problem if we deny the liberty of one another to suggest the conclusions of their study.

Now, draw the line. Obviously, if we have a disagreement over something fundamental that may lead to a reduction in fellowship or even breaking off a fellowship. In other words, a split. But how do we determine what’s fundamental and what’s not. Here’s a quote from reprint 5929 that I found many years ago that I really like.

Again, it really makes me appreciate the wisdom of our pastor. Reprint 5929 quote. It requires considerable experience and wisdom that cometh from above to enable us to judge rightly whether a matter of difference between others and ourselves is a question of principle, where some fundamental truth is at stake, or whether it is merely a question of opinion and preference without a principle being involved. In the latter case, we should be willing to submit to practically anything for the sake of peace, whereas we could not do so where principles would be involved. However, this delusion is often presented to us that our preferences are always backed up by principles of truth and righteousness.

We must learn from experience that this is a mistake and must critically examine every such suggestion, asking the Lord’s wisdom to enable us to see what are the differences between that which is merely our preference and those questions which involve principles and teachings of divine origin. So this comes back to us. How do you react if a brother or sister suggests something different than what your conclusion is? Well, how different is it? Maybe we need to define terms.

For example, as you know, the questions about the rain has the rain begun or not? Have been burning among the brethren for almost as long as I’ve been in the truth. But if somebody would say, well, to me the rain is the reign of righteousness, and that hasn’t begun yet. Well, yeah, I agree. Reign of righteousness has not begun.

But somebody else says, no, no, the rain includes the getting rid of the enemies and all of that. He leans them into his enemies. Okay, well, that’s true too. So maybe define what is the difference between us? What do you mean when you say this or that?

What do I mean when I say this or that? You know, we talk about Brother Carl. Carl was a master at being able to bring brethren together and you could talk to him about everything. I remember one time he told me that he and another brother were talking. You know, they had a difference of opinion about something.

By the end of the debate, they convinced each other. So they were still in odds.

That’s really a wonderful story because he had a discussion with it. They didn’t break fellowship. They didn’t normally angry. They convinced each other. Who would expect that?

So we need to be very careful to apply what the pastor says here, that just because something is different doesn’t mean it’s wrong, and in most cases it’s not fundamental. Can we give our brethren the liberty to draw a conclusion different than ours? Or do we feel we have to. We have to force them.

We have to convince them. We have to persuade them that our way is right. Well, if you feel too strongly that way, maybe you’ve got a little bit too much pride in your own thinking. If we love our brethren, we’re going to make accommodations as. As the pastor said here, if it’s not a principle, we should be willing to submit to anything, almost anything, for the sake of peace.

One minute, Brother. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Actually, I think I’m just about exhausted. What I wanted to say. Thank you very much, Brother David. Beautiful thoughts. I like the thought of we as brethren spend 95% of our time discussing the 5% we don’t agree upon.

Right. Freedom in Christ, certainly. I like your thought about relationship. How strong is that relationship that you can have? Correction.

Or you can have that discussion. I gave a talk in Chicago and I was talking about the Creative Week, and I said on each day, the Lord said, basically, it is good. Brother David came up to me afterwards and said, I don’t think so. Look at the second day.

And he was right that that’s the one day that he didn’t say it was good. I wrote a talk on that. So I appreciate Brother David for his encouragement. After I got done here today with my talk, I asked brethren, what did you see, what did I say? Any different thoughts?

Nothing yet, but I’m sure I’ll get some. But we need that feedback. We need to operate. We don’t operate in a vacuum, and our Heavenly Father wants that.

He wants us to grow and develop as a body, the body of Christ, one loaf, right? We help each other. We encourage each other. We sharpen each other. That’s the beauty of this.

Okay, home stretch. Brother Ernie, take us home. Question six, Brother Ernie, how should we respond when brethren have differing opinions? For example, where we are in the stream of time and so forth, should we take the side that sounds best? Should we study for ourselves?

If so, how should we pay attention to it? Because it only causes disagreement. Brother Ernie?

I think there are components from these three choices that give us an effective approach to the question. I think first of all, we should listen to the brethren as they discuss their reasoning and scriptures on the question. You know, I think this is part of the information gathering that we do. The fact is that if brethren have studied it, they may have more information. They may have done some assessments.

We can benefit if we take that as input, and I think this especially includes listening to the words of Brother Russell that we find in the volumes, in the reprints and his other writings. There’s other brethren that have written on these subjects, take the information in, because that only will help us make a better decision going forward. You know, and we do, when we do this, when we listen to the reasoning on the different sides of the question, we need to see which appears more reasonable and which is more scripturally based. I mean, that’s.

That’s one of the things that I’ve always thought about is if it’s presented in a reasonable fashion as opposed to somebody trying to force an opinion on you. I mean, I lean to the reasonable because otherwise. I mean, people sometimes try to persuade you with force. You know, they try to dominate the conversation, and that really is not going to get you where you want to go.

A technique that I like to use when listening to these things is see how each side deals with the strongest evidence presented by the other side. That’ll tell you where, help tell you where the arguments are weak, and Colossians 3, 16. This is a verse we read earlier in answer to question three. But one of the things it says to us is the last part of the verse with all wisdom, teaching and admonishing, which means to put into mind one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

So we should be able to discuss these things dispassionately. I mean, we may be excited about the kingdom and the fact is the blessings it’s going to bring, but we should be able to do this in a reasonable fashion, and if it’s not in a reasonable fashion, you know, we need to look at ourselves and say, is part of that me. In terms of those discussions. The, the other thing is the other verse, we’ll quote Hebrews 10, 24 and 25.

Let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds. So that should really be the goal of all of our conversations, and then you have the verse that says it’s related to it, the next verse, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together. So we need to assemble to basically incent one another to love and good words. That’s what Paul is telling us.

That’s how our conversations ought to go. So that first thing is we need to be able to talk to them about these things. The second things is we need to be able to study the subject ourselves. I mean, it’s not. We.

We shouldn’t delegate the decision to our brother and say, well, tell me what I should believe. I mean, that’s, that’s what nominal Christendom is doing. When they go to church, they go to the priest, and the priest tells them what to believe. Well, God is. Is appealing to our intellect.

He says, come reason with me, and he. Then he gives us the evidence and the logic in many different parts and places, explaining things to us, and, you know, that’s one of the reasons we talk to Brother is we may not know about this part over here or this part of. So we want to gather that information together.

And the verse I like that sort of ties into that is the 119th Psalm and verse 160. The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous ordinances is everlasting. But the key to me is the sum. So we got to make sure that we get all that God has spoken on these issues and get that together, because that’s going to help us make a good decision, and finally, the third one was, we don’t have to make a decision.

And this is also a Brother Carl story. Brother Carl, and we were having a conversation, and there was particular. One particular issue, and I don’t remember what the issue was, but what I remember was he said he had taken that issue and he put it up on the shelf.

He hadn’t made a decision yet. He wasn’t going to be forced into making a decision when. In. When it was crystal clear to him, then that decision would be made, and we need to give ourselves the liberty to do that.

I mean, some brethren will come up to you and they feel very passionate on a subject and they want to persuade you, and, you know, you have to be willing to say, it’s not that clear to me, or I got other things here that I think are significant. So, I mean, the point is, you need, you know, be rightly persuaded in your own mind, and if you’re not persuaded, then, you know, be willing to. To stand up and say that. But, you know, that’s Romans 14:5, where it says, each person.

Last part of the verse says each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. Now, Brother David talked about something that we’re going to chat just briefly on, and this is something we need to keep in mind with regard to our own reasoning. We all have filters that we are looking at the truth through. I like the way Paul expresses it in First Corinthians 13:12, which is, and I’m going to read from Phillips, he says, at present, we are men looking at puzzling reflections in a mirror.

The time will come when we will see Reality whole and face to face. At present, all I know is a little fraction of the truth. But the time will come when I shall know as fully as God knows me. Now, the context of this is Paul is talking primarily about love by looking in the mirror and seeing how well you’re measuring up against the standard of perfect love. But he’s also talking a little bit about the fact is we only see a portion of the truth.

I mean, God’s truth is kind of like way up here and he’s giving us a chance to see it. But we see the truth through the filters. First of all, of our own reasoning ability, secondly, of our own preconceived notions or prejudices or preferences. We also see it through the coloring of the ecclesia and the spiritual environment that we have grown up in and we’re comfortable with, and finally, you know, there’s also the influence we’ve talked about, influence of the brethren we’ve come to know and respect on that particular subject.

And so what I need to remember is the absolute truth coming from God and how I understand it in my own mind. I cannot assume they’re the same thing, and so the point is, is that if somebody disagrees with me, then I can’t conclude. Or you’re not in the truth because you’re not agreeing with my thinking, and my thinking is the same as the truth.

And so, you know, we’re students, and so we’re on a constant process to try to get our understanding closer and closer and closer to the word of God, the truth that comes out of God’s. God’s mouth, his mind, these scriptures, you know, and it’s. It’s an intuitive integrative part, process. I’m not saying the right word, but this fact is you keep kind of working at it. You keep kind of working at it to get it closer and closer and closer.

And so that’s really, I think, the point of James 3:17, where it says the wisdom from above is first pure. Okay? It doesn’t mean my understanding is pure. It means that the truth that comes from the Scriptures is pure, and my job is, or my mission is to make my understanding of that get it as close as we can so that then I can be, you know, I can use that to govern and direct my lives, you know, And.

And one of the things we need to be very careful, and I thank. I can’t overemphasize this enough, making sure our discussions on these differences don’t lead to strife, don’t lead to divisions. I Mean, we need to be able to discuss these things in a rational fashion based on love and without creating enemies, you know, and I look at the words of the APostle Paul in First Corinthians, where he talked about the factions and the division visions that was in that ecclesia.

He said, you know, in chapter one, he says, well, some say I have a Paul, and I’m Apollos, and I’m Cus, and I am on Christ. Well, those were individuals. But you can take ideas and say, well, I’m of this idea, or I’m of this idea, and you. You have the same effect.

And you know, when he says whether when there’s jealousy and strife among you, you’re not walking spiritually, you’re working carnally, you’re walking fleshly, you know, and that’s what he says in First Corinthians 3, chapter 3, chapter 3, verses 3 to 5. So we don’t want to get into that position, and then he says something really interesting in first Corinthians the fourth chapter, and basically, let me quote this verse, he says now, and he’s talking about the same kind of divisions.

He’s coming back to it again. He says, this is First Corinthians 4, 6. He says, now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that none of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against another. One of the. One of the traps of, you know, getting into these discussions that they’re going into the point of strife, Paul is saying, can lead to arrogance on our behalf of whatever we’re supporting, whether it’s an individual, whether it’s an idea or whatever, you know, and we have to be.

I think we have to be very careful because the adversary will take advantage of our fallen flesh, will take advantage of us and lead us in. In that direction, and there’s one other place where Paul talks about divisions in leading to strife. In Romans, the 14th chapter, he talks about the difference. The dispute that was amongst the brethren of eating meat offered titles.

And the fact is, what he says in there, and I think it’s really important, he says, who are you to judge another man’s servant to his master? He rises or falls, and so our focus is not them not being in the truth. The point is we should be looking at ourselves. We should be looking at ourselves along that line.

And the last verse I’ll quote is 1st Corinthians 13 and verse 2. If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and no knowledge, and if I have faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, do not have the character of Christ, do not have the character of God. I am nothing. Amen.

Always. Finish strong, brethren. Brother Ernie finished strong. So we certainly appreciate the thoughts, the efforts. Well, well received, well provided, brethren.

So we certainly appreciate that. You know, I have on the schedule questions from the floor, but we’re out of time. So basically, we have lunch or, I’m sorry, at dinner time or fellowship tonight or tomorrow. Please, please ask questions of these three brethrens and talk, talk amongst yourself to uplift and encourage one another. So thank you, dear, dear friends, for all of your time and help.

Thank you, Bellevue class, for this opportunity. It’s been a blessing.

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