Panel: When Adamic Death Ends When Will the Resurrection Begin GB, DS, LG, BS

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary

Short Summary

The panel discussed the concept and timing of resurrection according to scripture, emphasizing that resurrection began with Jesus as the “first fruits” and continues in an orderly sequence with the faithful church, the great multitude, ancient worthies, and then mankind. Resurrection is described as a two-part process involving an initial raising (ex anastasis) followed by a gradual moral and spiritual transformation (anastasis) to perfection. The panel also debated whether Adamic death ceases immediately at the kingdom’s onset or persists for a time, with scriptural support for both views, ultimately agreeing that resurrection is a progressive event tied to God’s divine plan and justice.

Long Summary

Detailed Panel Discussion Summary on Resurrection and Adamic Death

Purpose and Scope of Discussion
– The panel clarified upfront that the discussion is not about pinpointing exact dates for prophetic events but understanding general times and principles from Scripture.
– The goal is to gain insight into God’s plan and its unfolding, enhancing understanding of Scripture.

Defining Resurrection
– Resurrection is broadly defined as restoring a dead person or being back to life.
– The English word “resurrection” is found only in the New Testament, though Old Testament scriptures imply resurrection concepts (e.g., Job 33:24-25, Habakkuk 3:17-19).
– Greek terms:
– *Anastasis* (Strong’s #386): “standing up” or “raising up” — general resurrection.
– *Ex Anastasis* (Strong’s #1815): “to raise up out of death” — more specific resurrection from the dead.
– Resurrection has two phases:
1. Resuscitation (ex anastasis): Instant return to life, but not permanent (Old Testament and New Testament examples like Lazarus).
2. Resurrection (anastasis): A full transformation to perfection and uprightness before God, a gradual character development.

Types of Resurrection
Human Nature Resurrection: People are first raised to life (resuscitated), then gradually perfected through character development to attain everlasting life.
Spiritual Resurrection (Gospel Age Church): The “spirit-begotten” class experiences the power of Christ’s resurrection now by consecration and sanctification, and upon faithful completion, they receive a perfect spiritual body immediately at death or the Lord’s presence.
– Scriptures cited:
– Philippians 3:10-11 — Knowing Christ’s resurrection power and attaining resurrection from the dead.
– 1 Peter 1:3 and Titus 3:5-7 — Spiritual rebirth and living hope through Jesus’ resurrection.
– The “bride class” (church) is undergoing resurrection now by transformation; their full resurrection is a future event.

Order of Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:20-23)
– Jesus is the “first fruits” — the first to be resurrected to divine perfection.
– Next are those “who are Christ’s at His presence” — the church (called the bride or first fruits plural).
– Then comes the “rest of mankind.”
– 1 John 5:1 emphasizes believers are “begotten of God,” a spiritual birth likened to Jesus’ birth into spirit nature.
– Resurrection is tied to being born into a new nature (spirit or perfected human).

Instantaneous vs. Progressive Resurrection
– Jesus’ resurrection was instantaneous and complete; believers’ resurrection to spirit nature at the Lord’s presence will be similar.
– The general resurrection of mankind is progressive, involving a resuscitation followed by moral and spiritual development.
– The sleeping saints (those who died faithful in Christ before the presence) are raised first (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18; Revelation 14:13).
– Those alive at the Lord’s presence will be changed “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye” (1 Corinthians 15:51-53).

The Great Multitude and Ancient Worthies
– After the church, the “great multitude” described in Revelation 7:9-17 appears — they stand before the throne with white robes but are not on the throne, indicating a heavenly but lower spiritual nature (angels or spirit beings).
– The Ancient Worthies follow next — perfect human beings resurrected to a “better resurrection” (Hebrews 11:35), raised to perfection on earth, not as spirit creatures.
– Types and sacrifices in Numbers 29 are interpreted as symbolic of the order of resurrection:
– Bullock (perfect human) associated with ancient worthies.
– Scriptures like Joel 2:16-17 and Micah 5:5 indicate the ancient worthies will be raised during a time of trouble (Jacob’s trouble), to serve as judges and deliverers for Israel.
– Isaiah 1:25 and 66:19-20 also support their earthly ministry role post-resurrection.

Mankind’s Resurrection
– Mankind’s resurrection will begin after the ancient worthies.
– There is a suggestion that resurrection may start geographically with Israel and then spread to the rest of the world (Micah 4:2).
– The process may be generational, starting with those who lived most recently and going backward.
– The resurrection process includes resuscitation and then moral/perfection development.

When Does Resurrection Begin?
– Resurrection began with Jesus Christ, the first fruits.
– The church class resurrection is ongoing now spiritually and will be completed at the Lord’s presence.
– The sleeping saints and those alive at the Lord’s presence experience instant resurrection or transformation.
– The great multitude and ancient worthies follow in order.
– The general resurrection of mankind is a longer process, possibly lasting about 200 years, during the millennium.

Adamic Death: When Does It End?
Legal perspective (Brother Brad):
– Adamic death is a legal condition (condemnation due to Adam’s sin).
– It will end immediately when the church and ancient worthies (spirit-begotten under the blood) complete their course.
– Joshua 3 is used as a type: The crossing of the Jordan (representing Adamic condemnation) will be stopped at Adam when priests (church) enter death, symbolizing cessation of Adamic death.
Progressive perspective (Brother David and others):
– Adamic death effects (sickness, dying) continue into the millennium.
– Isaiah 35:8-9 and Zechariah 14:16-19 suggest unclean or unrepentant people will still suffer death and curses early in the kingdom.
– There is a trial period for the kingdom’s subjects to accept the New Covenant.
– Isaiah 65:20 is interpreted as a symbolic time period (e.g., 100 years) for those who fail to conform and still die.
– Pastor Russell’s writings and other teachings point to a continuing death for some after the kingdom starts.
– The general consensus is that Adamic death will cease legally when the blood is applied but may continue physically for some time during the kingdom as a test for mankind.

Additional Scriptural References
– Psalm 2:7 and Acts 13:33 — Jesus was begotten (born) as a divine being at resurrection.
– Hebrews 11 — The ancient worthies seek a “better resurrection.”
– 1 Corinthians 3 — Different classes rewarded according to their “building materials” (gold, silver, wood).
– Revelation 7 — The great multitude before the throne.
– 2 Timothy 2:20 — Four kinds of vessels represent different classes (gold, silver, wood, clay).
– Joel 2:16-17 — The ancient worthies intercede at the time of the bride’s completion.
– Micah 5:5 — The ancient worthies’ role during the trouble in Israel.
– Isaiah 35 — The highway of holiness and the exclusion of the unclean.
– Jeremiah 31:29-30 — Individuals die for their own iniquity, not because of ancestral sins.

Closing Thoughts
– Resurrection is a process, not a single event, involving resuscitation and transformation.
– Resurrection began with Jesus and continues with the church, great multitude, ancient worthies, and mankind.
– Adamic death will eventually cease but may continue in some form early in the kingdom.
– The discussion emphasized order, God’s justice, and the progressive nature of resurrection and perfection.
– The panelists expressed gratitude for the opportunity and encouraged further questions.

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Key Bible Verses Cited in Discussion:

– Philippians 3:10-11 — Power of resurrection and attaining resurrection from the dead.
– 1 Peter 1:3 — Regeneration and living hope through resurrection.
– Titus 3:5-7 — Renewal by the Holy Spirit.
– 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 51-53 — Christ as first fruits, order of resurrection, and transformation.
– 1 John 5:1 — Believers begotten of God.
– Revelation 7:9-17 — The great multitude before the throne.
– Hebrews 11:35 — Better resurrection of ancient worthies.
– Joel 2:16-17 — Ancient worthies interceding.
– Micah 5:5 — Ancient worthies raised during trouble.
– Isaiah 35:8-9 — Highway of holiness and exclusion of the unclean.
– Zechariah 14:16-19 — Nations worshiping in Jerusalem and consequences for non-compliance.
– Joshua 3:3-17 — Crossing Jordan as a type of ending Adamic death.
– Jeremiah 31:29-30 — Personal responsibility for sin.
– Psalm 2:7 and Acts 13:33 — Jesus begotten on resurrection day.

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This summary captures the complex theological points made during the panel, reflecting scriptural interpretations and harmonizing different views on resurrection and Adamic death within the framework of Bible Student teachings.

Transcript

And I’m gonna, I’m gonna raise my finger and I’m gonna say, right now we’re not looking for dates. That’s not the intention of this discussion, is to come up with a specific date. We are looking for general times according to the scriptures, what God has given us insights to into the future. Now, do we benefit from things that haven’t happened yet and understanding it? Maybe not directly, but indirectly, yes, because it gives us a better, a general understanding and of God’s plan, which helps us understand other portions of his plan.

And that’s our effort today, and we hope that it’s well received and that the Lord blesses this effort. We have scheduled one hour and 30 minutes total, which seems like a long time. But we’re going to get through our discussion and if we have time, we’re going to open up for any questions that any of the participants or those here in class may have for the panel. So we’re going to take the first question and the question is, when does resurrection start?

Now that’s, that’s a very broad statement, a very broad question. I think a great starting point would be to define or understand what resurrection is. So I looked up in the English dictionary the definition for resurrection, and it simply states restoring a dead person or being that once had life back to life. The secondary meaning is that it. You can apply it to buildings and to systems, you can resurrect the building and so forth, which we have no real concern.

That is a broad stroke of the pen. We. Since the word resurrection is only found in the New Testament, although the principles of resurrection are found in the Old Testament. For example, Job, his friend Elihu spoke of he had found a ransom, and that he that your flesh would return to the days of your youth. That’s a concept of resurrection.

Habakkuk speaks of being hidden until God’s wrath has passed as well. But the word resurrection doesn’t appear. It appears in the New Testament, and we know that that came from the Greek. Brother Brad, would you have the Greek definition for the word resurrection? Yeah, I do.

And if you don’t mind, Brother George, I’m going to use a scripture text to discuss the definition of that question, because it’s a word that you need to read in context to understand that it is speaking of resurrection from the grave. So I’m going to start with Philippians 3, verses 10 and, and 11, Philippians 3, 10 and 11, where Paul says that I may know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his suffering being conformed to his death in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Now there is a significant difference in the word resurrection between these two verses. In verse 10, the Greek word for resurrection is Strong’s number 386 Anastasis, which means a standing up or a raising up. We see it as rising or resurrection.

Now the Greek word for resurrection in verse 11 is different that I may attain to the resurrection. It is Strong’s number 1815, 1815 which is ex anastasis meaning to raise up from out of death.

Now Jesus death and the power of God’s resurrection which raised the man Christ Jesus from the dead, opened up the privilege for mankind to come back from the grave with a resurrection to the human nature in the kingdom. Furthermore, Jesus resurrection in the gospel age also opens up the privilege of experiencing the power of his resurrection for those who are running the race of the high calling in Christ, and if faith lunt to death, this class the spirit begotten will be resurrected to spirit nature. Now it’s important to remember that resurrection to life before God, a perfect resurrection, is not a one moment event. Each resurrection, whether it is human or spiritual, has two parts.

One, a resuscitation or ex anastasis and two, a resurrection or anastasis. So examples of resuscitation or existences from the grave or the dead examples are found in both the Old and New Testament. These were raised to life again in an instant, but later they all died again. They were only resuscitated and not resurrected in the fullest sense. Resurrection anastasis is a complete upstanding or uprightness by being brought back to a position of perfection before God.

This is a gradual process. It will be a transformation. Now these two resurrections, spiritual and human nature, operate exactly in the opposite manner of each other. Human resurrection in the kingdom, mankind will first be resurrected or resuscitated with ex anastasis. Now with this living body, mankind will then need to be resurrected or anastasis and transform a character on the highway of holiness in order to stand before God in a complete uprightness of perfection, in order to be considered fully resurrected and thereby attaining perfect human everlasting life.

Now on the other hand, to achieve Christ’s spiritual resurrection, the spirit begotten of the gospel age will first need to have a resurrection while they are in the flesh. Anastasis, the spirit begotten new creatures need a transformation of heart and mind to develop the character of Christ Likeness, God likeness, agape love as they now walk in newness of life if faithful unto death, this bride class will experience an instant ex anastasis. The transformed character, heart and mind will then be suitable to receive a perfect spiritual body, the divine nature. This would also apply to the great company who will have a lower nature of angelic nature. Therefore, the prospective bride class today will not have a resurrection.

You are being resurrected, Anastasis, transformed into Christ. Right now we experience the power of his resurrection when we consecrate our lives to God and are begotten of the Holy Spirit and walk in newness of life, of sanctification, and Peter and Paul both speak of this. 1st Peter 1, verse 3, 1st Peter 1:3 and Titus 3, 5, 7. Blessed be the God, the Father of our Lord Jesus, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us or begotten us the church class of the Gospel age unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead.

And I’ll just refer you then to A reprint article 3132 where brother Russell shares this very same thought, where he explains that we are reckoned as new creature in Christ, implies that the old creature, the old nature, is dead and hence a new will or nature has been started, begotten that the new creature with God proposes to raise up and has started us in this upward course. There is no sense of the word applies to a fleshly resurrection, but a rising of the spirit, of the mind above earthly things to a relationship with the heavenly and spiritual.

So you can look further into that. I’ll stop my thoughts there. But to understand the meaning of the words resurrection you have to read them in context over. Thank you very much brother Brad. That was very detailed and enlightening and I appreciate your efforts and your research.

That explains a lot, and you, you did a very beautiful thing by contrasting just the term resurrection or ex anastasis, as you said, and comparing it to Anastasia anastasis or anastasis, however you choose to pronounce it. There’s a difference, and the difference is raised to a moral standard to which God will deal with and in in general, the words in the scriptures that are denoted resurrection in the English generally, not always, but generally have that anastasist thought to being bring back morally. So now I’m going to pose a question but I’m going to do it in the form of reading two scriptures and I’m going to ask our brother Lenny if you would read First Corinthians chapter 15, verse 23 and Brother David if you could read First John chapter 5, verse 1 and we’ll have.

Brother Lenny, when you get it, you read yours first.

First Corinthians 15:23. George, I’m going to read this from the RVIC version. Okay. I think this passage is a difficult one and there are some uncertainties about certain translations. So if this isn’t what you want, you can tell me and I’ll read out of the NAS, but we’ll try.

Here’s 1523. It says, but each in his own order, Christ the first fruits. After that, they that are Christ in his presence. Yeah, that’s it. Okay.

So this, the, the context of that scripture comes from a discussion Apostle Paul’s having about resurrection, and he, he, he puts it out there that the Lord was the first fruits of that resurrection. Now, just a quick remark, that word is plural fruits. It’s not first fruit, it’s first fruits, which we’ll get into in a minute. Brother David, could you now read 1st John 5:1?

1st John 5:1. This is from the American Standard Version. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is begotten of God, and whosoever loveth him that begotten loveth him also that is begotten of him. Thank you, brother. Now, in other translations, that’s that actual begotten is translated born.

And we know that our Lord was born. He was born into the heavenlies. Brother Russell covers that very well in the first volume. To change natures, you have to be born into it, much like the Logos was born a man, Jesus. Okay, with that said, Jesus was born into the spirit world.

He was born a new creature, literally in every sense of the word. So does the term anastasis, which is the thought in First Corinthians 15, does that apply to the Lord? That’s, that’s my question at this time. I want to hear from all of our perspective panelists, but we’ll start with Brother Lenny. What’s your thoughts on that?

Brother Lynn Well, I think that’s Strong’s word anastasis. We did a study. In fact, I think it’s brother Jim Parkinson that did that, that anastasis is used most of the time to mean a full standing, but it also is used from time to time to mean raising up, standing up again. Out of the 41 times that it’s used in the New Testament, that term resurrection, standing up again is the most common kind of thing, and I think it behooves what Brad said.

You know, this is talking about a time when a person is fully ready to, I don’t know what we say Fully, fully accomplished. So that’s the idea of being, you know, not just raised up, but then being fit to inherit eternal life, and I think that’s the way we generally think about it. You know, the Old Testament, when you. Well, let me go back to say when we look at people like that are used this term resurrection or raising up, like from Stephen being the first one that was dead.

What does it say? It says he fell asleep. We have that in Acts, chapter five. It says he fell asleep. Well, it’s very interesting because it doesn’t use that with Jesus.

Right. Jesus is raised up, doesn’t say he fell asleep. But that implication is used several times. Fell asleep is indicating the. There was to be a time that they spent in the grave and Stephen did, along with a number.

I’m hearing somebody’s got their mic open. Think, Sister Bobby, could you close your mic?

So I think that Jesus had everything that anyone would have at his resurrection, and that implies that if that’s true, then anyone that’s raised in Paul’s dissertation of being first fruits at the time they’re raised would have everything that they had. There’s nothing further for them to develop, and that fits with the principle we talk about with the church class. I mean, our job here is to put ourselves in a position that God doesn’t have to judge us anymore.

When we go to, you know, when we’re resurrected, we have no judgment on that side. All the judgment comes at the time that. Now, during this time, brethren, if you could everyone close their mute themselves because we’re getting feedback here. I appreciate that. Thank you.

So my answer would be that, you know, Jesus was raised with everything, that any new creature will be raised with the same thing. There’s nothing further at that point. We’re raised like Jesus, with a full standing and nothing more.

You can talk more about some of this, but that answers at least where I am Jesus and the church class, and what Paul says here, First Corinthians, that you are a fruit. Jesus was the first, the church is the next over. Thank you, Brother Lynn. That actually ties into how Brother Brad explained it, that the world will receive their moral upbringing or tutorage in the kingdom, but those who are on trial for life now are receiving it now.

Either way, it doesn’t matter at what point you get it, as long as you get it now. Yeah, your words complement each other. Let’s turn to Brother David. Do you have anything on that, Brother David, before we move on? Well, I, I could say, Brother Lynn, what he said, because I, I Think he expressed it well, but let me put it in my own words.

I understand the word resurrection. Anastasis or anesthesia, stasis, to my understanding, means to be brought to perfection. When Jesus was raised from the dead, he was raised a divine creature. He was brought to perfection as Len said, nothing more. When the church is raised at the end of the gospel age, beginning, as most of us believe in 1878, they too are raised to perfection as divine beings.

When the great company will be raised, they will be raised to perfection not as divine beings, but spiritual beings. When the ancient worthies are raised. Very interesting that Paul describes their resurrection as a better resurrection. Well, better than what answer is better than the world? They will be raised to full human perfection.

Nothing more needs to be added. They’re. They’re perfect, but their resurrection is better than the resurrection of the world in that the world. The world will be. Will be resuscitated.

But the resurrection is the process that leads them to perfection once again. So in the case of the ancient worthies, it’s instantaneous perfection, instantaneous resurrection. In the case of the world, the resurrection takes over a period of time until they achieve perfection once again. Over. Thank you, Brother David.

Brother George. Oh, go ahead, George. I just wanted to add a scripture that I meant to say, and I think that defines this particular thing we’ve talked about, and that’s second Timothy 4, 6, 8. When Paul’s summarizing his own life and his work.

Somebody’s sending messages. I don’t know who that is. We’ll view them later. It’s kind of distracting. I just asked if you’re sending messages, send it privately to Brother George.

Second Timothy four, six to eight. This is Paul saying, for I am already being offered, and the season of my departure is come. I have fought the good fight. I have finished the course. I have kept the faith.

Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day, and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing. So to me that says, you know, at that point you have everything you’re going to get. I mean, in terms of the body, in terms of your standing, obviously there’s a big work to be done, but there’s nothing more for the church to accomplish in themselves at that point. Just like the Apostle Paul, they’re ready. They’re ready to go to work.

Agreed. Thank you. Follow up with Brother David. I like the dictionary, the definition of the word perfect, and.

And one of the words that it uses to express the thought is complete, and the world will not be complete in the sense until they are raised to a moral value to which God will welcome the church. The great multitude, the ancient worthies, all will have that trial first and then receive the benefits later. I think that’s a good thought. So would we.

In. In just short verse, would we say that our Lord was indeed resurrected and he was also born into the. To this. To the spirit nature. I mean, a yes or no answer.

I see a yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Part of his.

Yes. Part of his anesthesis was learning obedience through the things he suffered. Yeah. Ex anastasis was on the third day. Over.

Thank you. So, George, I guess. I guess you’re getting at the fact that resurrection, we could say, really started there. Thank you. That’s that point I was driving home, and you.

I appreciate your due diligence. Yes. Brother David, I’d like to add a couple of scriptures, I think, that hammer the point home. First, the prophecy in Psalm 2, verse 7. I will tell of the decree.

Jehovah said unto me, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee, and this is quoted in Acts, chapter 13, verse 33, that God hath fulfilled the same unto our children in that he raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second psalm, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee, and certainly in the Acts version, the Greek word for begotten, genao, means to bring to birth. It’s not like spirit begetto that we’re talking about, but rather the actual raising to full perfection.

So when Jesus was raised, he was brought to birth, and that means that he was born as a divine creature, complete, as Brother Len said, lacking nothing. So the word begotten here in. At least in the American standard version, doesn’t quite bring the idea, because when you think about begetting, you’re still thinking about the birthing process. But no, this is brought to birth.

This is the day, the instant that Jehovah God took him out of the grave and resurrected him to be a divine creature. Over. Thank you, Brother David. I appreciate that. So we all agree that our Lord was the first fruit.

He was the first to be resurrected. So the question is answered, at least in part, when does resurrection begin? It has begun according to God’s divine arrangement, his eternal arrangement. Resurrection has begun, and it began with his Son.

So now, brethren, we still have. Brother, we still have some people that are not muted. Could you please mute yourself now? Thank you. So following up on First Corinthians 15:23, it says Jesus was the first the first fruits.

He was of the first fruits. Meaning there are others. Brother Brad, who would those others be in that first fruits class? Well, that would be the Spirit begotten class of the Gospel age, who we know the sleeping saints have been raised from the dead, and as 1 Corinthians 15 teaches, those faithful ones living at the end of the harvest of the Gospel age, they too will experience an exnastasis immediately.

They won’t sleep in the grave like the sleeping saints did. Over. Thank you. So if anesthesis or resurrection applies to our Lord, then it surely applies to his followers, his bride class. There’s no doubt.

Brother David, Go ahead. Yeah, just a little more explanation of that, of that text. In First Corinthians 15, in verse 20, it certainly identifies Jesus as the first fruits. It says, but now hath Christ been raised from the dead the first fruits of them that are asleep. For since by one man came death, by one man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive, but each in his own order. Christ the first fruits, then they that are Christ said is coming. This second reference to Christ, to the first fruits, I believe refers to the church and those that are Christ that is coming the rest of the world. The reason I say that is you go back to verse 22. It says, for as in Adam die, so also in Christ shall be all, all made alive.

So we’re talking about all that will be made alive in Christ.

So Christ the first fruits is part of all that shall be made alive in Christ, and that has to be the church, and then they that are Christ that is coming. So Jesus is indeed the first first fruits, as we see in verse 20. But Christ the first fruits, the Christ the first fruits refers to the church over. Thank you, Deborah.

And just for that, I, I think that’s right. Those that were anointed and die during his presence makes a big difference, and when, when they’re being raised. So good point. Because James 1:18, which I don’t think David mentioned, says in the exercise of his will, he brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among his creatures.

So I think that plural first fruits indicates that that’s. He’s talking there about the church class. Thank you.

For those who have studied, it’s. It’s easy to see that it’s referring to the same group. I like the thought too. That that Christ’s head and body is the first fruits. It’s made up of many individuals, so that that category sticks with Christ’s head and body, which will be together in a future date.

We don’t know when, so we know the first Corinthians. Apostle Paul tells us in chapter 15. I believe it’s verse 51, he says, I show you a mystery that we shall not all sleep. We brother Brad touched on it, but let’s just touch on it just lightly.

We know that the process of resurrection has started with our Lord, and for the obvious, I’ll just state the question in a. In a redundant way, but has it started for any of the church yet? I’ll just get it started that way. Who would like to offer on that?

Well, there’s two scripture texts. Well, actually, I have three, if you don’t mind them. Red, go ahead. Okay. I’m going to read the rvic version of First Corinthians 15:51-53.

And just notice the change of wording here. Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all fall asleep. In other words, all of the church shall sleep in death. But we shall not all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trump.

For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, this mortal put on immortality. This is the ex synastasis of the faithful church, which is happening during the harvest time. Revelation 1413 and 14. Revelation 1413 and 14.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying, right, blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, so that he may rest from his labors, and their deeds do follow them. We remember in this description the Lord’s presence. He’s shown as wearing a crown and has a sickle in his hand representing the harvest, and then first Thessalonians 4, verses 15 through 18.

For this we say to you, by the word of the Lord, and we who are alive and remain until the presence of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. So there’s a special blessing for those who are alive and remain during the Lord’s presence. For the Lord himself will descend with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and we remember that Michael has stood up. Daniel 12:1.

That’s that archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. The sleeping saints are raised first. Then we who are alive and remain during the parousia will be caught up together with them, not in the same time, but with the same experience or the same place. Meet them in the clouds of the air.

So after the faithful church during the presence, die in Adam, they won’t sleep, but they’ll be changed in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye to the spirit nature over. Thank you, Brother Brad, Brother David or Brother Lynn, either of you have something? Brother Lynn? Evelyn, I think. Fred, go ahead.

Who’s. Who’s up? You’re up, brother. Then. Sorry.

Okay. I think Brad’s right. If you go back to that 20 and 23 of that First Corinthians 15, that’s kind of what indicates, and that’s especially when you look at that translation of, you know, we shall all sleep, but we shall not all be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, implies there are some that would be, okay, those that are his at his presence. So that’s why we hold that idea that now, yes, those that die, that are saints, have that instantaneous resurrection.

But like with Stephen, where it says. It just says he fell asleep, and we have that several places where they fall asleep, they are sleeping in death for some period of time. They’re not raised instantaneously, but they were at the time of his presence, and I think that’s the key in understanding this order that Paul lays out for us in 1st Corinthians 15, that in verse 22, for as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive or quickened, but then each in his own order.

And that’s then the order that he gives us there with first those that are sleeping, then those that are his at his presence, and then the general resurrection, which includes the ancient worthies and others. Thank you, brother. Yeah, I really like the scripture that Brother Brad quoted in First Thessalonians, chapter 4. That is very plain scripture, that the resurrection of the dead in Christ is the first indicator or the first action that Jesus does or among the first actions at his return, and it makes mentions those that are alive that there would be others involved as well.

Another scripture that verifies this is in Revelation, chapter 14, verse 13, and it reads there, and I heard a voice from heaven saying, right, blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from henceforth, and come back to that. Yay, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors, for their works follow with them. So the question is, what’s henceforth? Well, henceforth from back in Thessalonians, the raising of the Sleeping, those that are dead in Christ from that point forward.

Now there is an instantaneous resurrection for those that are working during the time of the parousia in terms of when that would happen. You know, most of us believe 1878 is the beginning of that point, and some years ago, Ken Rawson made an interesting interpretation of a scripture in Romans chapter 11, which gets us to the 1878 through another route, and it says there, Romans 11:15. For if the casting away of them he’s speaking of Israel is the reconciling of the world, what shall be the receiving of, what shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead?

So what brother Ken did is he equated the receiving of the favor to Israel back again with the raising from the dead, both of which we believe in 1878. So this is one scripture that again, through interpretation, you can connect both events, something going on on earth and something going on in the spiritual realm, and as Lenny mentioned, that there is an order. 1 Corinthians 15 says there was the order. When you go to Psalm 45, you find that order given quite beautifully.

In verses 2 through 8, it talks about Jesus. In verses 9 through 14, it talks about the little flock, the lamb’s wife, verses 14 and 15, the great company, verse 16, the ancient worthies, and in verse 17, the rest of the world. So we have that order that Paul speaks about in. In First Corinthians 15, laid out for us in, in prophetic form in Psalm 45 over. Thank you, brother.

Brother George one others. One other scripture I want to add in, and it’s one we we gloss over kind of quickly. But it indicates, I think, that there is a resurrection that takes place immediately when Jesus returns, and I. I call four years immediate. That’s John 14:3.

When Jesus is talking to his disciples, his apostles, at the last Supper, he says, in my Father’s house are many mansions. This is 14, 2 and 3. If it were not so, I would have told you. For I go to prepare a place for you, and if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and I will receive you unto myself, that where I am, there may ye may be also.

I think that indicates that Jesus is saying, when he returns, he’s going to take his apostles right away, and they would be ones that would be sleeping, but he’s not taking them before that. So the general belief in the church that they go to heaven when they die, Jesus doesn’t indicate that at all. John 14 he says, When I come back, that’s when I’ll bring you to me. That’s right, Brother David. Go ahead, Brother David.

Yeah, I was tickled a little bit when Brother Len said that immediate within four years, and it reminded me of a beautiful type of that. When Solomon began his reign and he’s a picture of the reign of Christ in glory, he did not begin building the temple right away. Remember, the temple represents the church. We’re the temple class.

And yet isn’t it interesting it was in the fourth year of his reign that he began building the temple. Now that’s a curious parallel because we believe in the fourth year of Jesus return his reign, 1878, he began building the the temple, the antitypical temple as well. Over. Thank you both for those thoughts. Very good thoughts.

You know, it’s just a quick analogy of or a quick explanation of Apostle Paul’s words in First Corinthians 15. He’s the one that speaks it and he includes himself. He says we shall not all sleep. So he’s referring to himself as going to be sleepy and the others will be different. So I appreciate that discussion on that, brother.

I think that clarifies it. Does it, Brother Brad, go ahead. Just one quick thought on why does the scripture say blessed are they who die in the Lord from now on? Right. Well, the would be is because they won’t sleep in the grave, will be raised instantly over.

Thank you, brother. Good point. We’re going to move on, and we have established especially in Corinthians 15:23, there’s a very specific order. God is very orderly being and his wisdom is is shown in everything he does, especially in the procedure of resurrection, starting with our Lord, then to his church, the the saints or the bride class.

And then who would be next? And we had mentioned we only have to touch on these next couple just briefly. But who would be next in that order? And it was mentioned earlier. Ancient worthies.

Well, no, no, no. We’re. I’m the great multitude. I’m sorry, I may not have met it, I may not have said that. But it’s the great, the great multitude.

And we know in Revelations 7 it talks about that. Is there any thoughts on that before we move on?

First off, what, what type of. Of life are they going to receive? Does the Scriptures indicate Go, Brother David. Well, in First Corinthians 3, it describes the individuals building with various building materials, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble, and it says there that those are that are building with the materials that are eternal would have a reward.

And it says those that are Building with others would have a loss. They would lose something, but they would be delivered as through fire. So I understand that the great company will be raised after the church is complete, not at the same time as the church. That’s my understanding of the matter, and that they would be on the scene then of the marriage feast scene.

They would be present as indicated in Revelation 19 over. Thank you, dear brother. Brother Landon, any thoughts? I think you put. Yeah, you pointed out that Revelation 7.

I think that’s the one on the great multitude. The interesting thing that says these are different than those that are raised right in the church class because it says, I. I behold a great multitude which no man could number, and that’s another question of every nation and all tribes and disciples and tongues, meaning they came from, you know, these tribes that are mentioned before, but there’s a difference. They stand before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes. Now, arrayed in white robes means that.

That they still have to have some. Something on the outside. That’s. This is not the divine nature. So they do have the spirit nature.

But there’s a service indicated. Remember, when we have the wedding garments, you go in. There’s a righteousness that is given to them. That’s not the righteousness of the saints who at that point have gained their crown. These still have to have the white robes on.

So it indicates a lower. Well, status is not the right word, but a lower level of the church. But they’re there soon after the church is raised. Very good, Brother David. Yeah, I’m just gonna add one more point there from.

From that Revelation 7 says that they’re before the throne. So this indicates, again, as Brother Len said, a different status. They’re not on the throne. Jesus said that he was going to share his throne just as the Father shares his throne with him. But this group are not on the throne.

They are before the throne. Therefore, definitely a different status. Over. Thank you, Brother Brad. Go ahead.

Yeah. Brother David already mentioned Psalms 45, which is a heavenly scene. That’s the marriage of the bride. Right, and her maidens, the virgins, follow her.

A spiritual picture. I just wanted to read the Four Planes of Life from 2 Timothy 2, verse 20, 2nd Timothy 2, 20. Now, in a large house, there are not only gold and silver implements, but also implements of wood and of earthenware and clay, and I think David mentioned First Corinthians 3. But here we have an order of the four planes of life in God’s house.

The little flock with the divine nature are vessels of gold. The great company will be of angelic nature, represented in vessels of silver. The ancient worthies will be a better resurrection class being raised perfect. The princes will be a model and a pattern for the rest of mankind. So they are represented as vessels of wood.

And then finally we have human nature, mankind represented as wood. Over. Thank you, brother. Connecting with one of the thoughts. Revelation 7, 9.

I beheld a great multitude and they stood before the throne. It has been proposed to me not often, but I’ve heard this thought that some have thought that possibly that the great multitude is not necessarily a heavenly class. One of the first scriptures comes to mind is the second next one down or the 11th verse, and it says. Now it’s talking about the areas of the heaven.

And it says the great multitude will stand before the throne, and who else stands before the throne in verse 11, and all the angels stood around about the throne. It’s in the heavens for sure. So the great multitude, in my mind, I’m solid in the fact that it is a heavenly realm and it is a lower form of life like we had said, other than the church, but still a greater.

Greater than. Than an earthly life. But nonetheless they’re, they’re. They have a reward. Not the reward.

Any other final thoughts on that? I think we’ve covered it nicely. Unless there’s a scripture or something, I want to move on to the next category, and who might that be? Brother Brad, you mentioned it earlier.

In the next order of resurrection, the ancient worthies. Thank you, dear brother. So the ancient worthies, now we’ve left the heavens. We’re no longer. God has filled the heavens with whom he desires to be in that heavenly family, the church and the great multitude.

But now we. Now we’re coming to an earthly resurrection and it’s the ancient worthies. Brother. Brother Lynn, what. What are your thoughts on that?

Do you have any scriptures that you’d like to relate to that effect? Well, the question is, right, will the ancient worthies be the first ones that come up of the world? And of course the classic scriptures, Hebrews 11, that we use to talk about the ancient worthies, and Hebrews 11 says that they were seeking a better condition. But the thing is, we know it’s not a heaven.

Second Timothy 1:10. Let me read that scripture.

Second Timothy 1:10.

It says now hath manifested by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and incorruption to light through the gospel. Gospel. Hang on a second. Is that the one I wanted? Yeah, I guess that’s it.

Somehow I was thinking that they did not want. I mean, they never. We don’t find anything that they asked for a heavenly reward or look for a heavenly reward. They believed God was in heaven and would care for them. Right.

I think. But they did not expect that, and in Hebrews 11 it talks about them being made perfect. Okay? They without us.

And Paul is implying there in Hebrews that that’s the church class, and those that are part of the heavenly class would not be made perfect. So the idea not apart or before the church is perfected, and so that leaves them because the church is perfected, great company it must has to be then a status where they are on the earth, but they are perfected, and in that verse 35, in Hebrews 11, it uses the word a better.

Let me go. Hebrews 11, sorry.

In Hebrews 11:35, right. It says that women received their dead by a resurrection. But again we standing. But others were tortured, not accepting their deliverance that they might obtain a mightier resurrection. Well, that’s interesting because women receive them from the dead.

And there were some of those that were brought back that we don’t necessarily know about. But it also means that their deliverance would mean a better resurrection. The deliverance could only be through death and then raised to what would be a better resurrection, but not the best resurrection. They would be better than the world that was being raised and serve as examples of what they have to attain, and I think there’s some pictures of that which because of time won’t go into.

But in numbers, the 29th chapter, we have a whole series of things and sacrifices, and one of those sacrifices at the end was a ram and seven lambs, and I think there’s a picture of the resurrection of the ancient worthies there that comes up after the day of atonement is complete. We know the sacrifice of the red heifer on the day of atonement. But then these numbers 29 has a sacrifice of a bullock, which not a red heifer.

And key is that represents perfection. The bullock represents perfection. So the ancient worthies are the first to exemplify what we discover in I think we. Did we read Psalm 51, maybe not Psalm 51:9.

Psalm 51:9 says, Hide thy face from my sins and blot out all mine iniquities, and I think that’s really what happens with ancient worthies. Their iniquities are now blotted out. They are raised and they are in a state that the world of mankind would be if they attain to the full resurrection. This is called a better resurrection for them than what the rest of the world would receive.

I’ll stop there. Brother David. Yeah. I really appreciate brother Lynn bringing to Our attention numbers 29 as a picture of the resurrection of the ancient world. These.

Because in verse seven, it tells @ what the day of the calendar was when this would occur. It says on the tenth day of the seventh month. Now we know the tenth day of the seventh month is atonement day. So this is another sacrifice entirely on the atonement day. It can’t be the same as the atonement day, nor could it precede the most important sacrifice of the atonement day, the bullock in the year end and the Lord’s goat.

So this has to be on the same day. But following the atonement day sacrifices, and as brother Len pointed out, the very first offering after the atonement day sacrifices are complete, is a young bullock, and we think of bullocks as representing perfect human beings. It can’t be Jesus because he was already depicted earlier in the day in a different chapter.

So who’s left? Well, it’s the ancient worthies, and as Len pointed out, they are perfect human beings. So a bullock can be a perfect picture of them. So again, this is another picture in type of the ancient worthies being the very beginning of the earthly resurrection after the church and the great company have finished their course and gone beyond the veil.

Over.

I would like to share a scripture that points to this. The church is complete and the ancient worthies will be next on the scene, and we find that in Joel 2, 16, 17. Joel 2, 16, 17. Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children and the nursing infants.

Have the groom come out of his room. That would be our Lord Jesus, the bridegroom and the bride out of her bridal chamber. Here. The church is now complete, and then it says, let the priests, the Lord’s ministers, weep between the porch and the altar.

And let them say, spare your people, Lord, and do not make your inheritance a disgrace with the nations jeering at them. I hold that these ministers, the ancient worthies, are the ancient worthies who will be on the scene first in the resurrection, and the same as Ezekiel 44,3, they will minister the wishes of the bride and the Lord, the mediators of the new covenant, and so they will be the first ones raised to begin this work of Anastasis, or rising up in the resurrection of the millennial age. Over. Thank you, brother David.

You may have answered my next question. Inadvertently but it was a good point and Brother Lynn brought it up in the scripture in Numbers, I believe it was 23 when it says that. That another sacrifice was made on the day of atonement, and it, and we see it representing the.

The ancient worthies, which I appreciate because there had been discussion that I have heard. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it was there a possibility that the great, the ancient worthies would be resurrected during the time of trouble to assist God and Christ in setting up the kingdom. To me, that scripture you quoted is definitive that they will be after the trouble is over. But final thoughts on that? Anybody have something on that?

Brother David I’m going to suggest that there is a scripture that shows that they will be resurrected during a a trouble, particularly a trouble in Israel. In Micah, chapter five, verse five, we read there, and this man shall be our peace, and whether a man is added so this would be our peace. When the Assyrian shall come into our land, and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise seven shepherds and eight principal men, or princes of men. So there is an aggression going on at the time the ancient worthies are raised.

It says the Assyrian here. There’s various other pictures or symbols of it, like the king of the north and the coming down out of the north. But it says not only do they cross into the border borders of the land, but they, they’re in their palaces. So this suggests the trouble that comes right up to the doorstep of Israel at that time, and in response again, the great company and the church will be gone.

The response to that is the raising of the seven shepherds and eight princes of men. Seven shepherds. A beautiful picture of the church. The church becomes involved now here from a heavenly standpoint. But the eight princes of men are the ancient worthies.

We already saw from Psalm 45 that they are designated the princes of the earth at that time. So their raising is during this time of trouble, and other scriptures seem to indicate that they have some part in the miraculous deliverance of Israel that God has and Jesus has. They are involved in that in, in some intimate way over. Brother Lenny, go ahead.

Well, yes, I really, I think that’s a very important scripture, and one thing back in Numbers 29 helps us understand that a little better. In Verse 11, there was another sacrifice. After the sacrifice of the bullock, it says 1 he goat for a sin offering. Besides the sin offering of atonements and the continual burn offering, and the meal offering thereof, and their drink offerings, I think it indicates to us that it the ancient worthies are raised at a time when there’s still sin and they are not deluded by that sin, but they have to be protected from the sin.

And I think that indicates with what’s done there, it’s a protection until the new covenant is made, and that’s another reason I don’t think the new covenant is made with the ancient worthies. I think it’s made with Israel. But that protection there is important for them that go for a sin offering, which is similar to Leviticus 16 that we had. So that’s a key element.

And I think that Micah 5:5 certainly is important because it does indicate and also indicate, I think, from numbers 29, that all the ancient worthies, I believe, are raised at once because they’re part of that conquering and they’re raised in Israel. That’s. I know that you were getting at that, but I’ll just throw that in now as to why I think that’s true, because as David said, they’re instrumental in fending off the last enemy to Israel. Thank you, Brother Lynn. Brother Brad, we haven’t heard from you.

I know you want to say something, then we’ll get back to you, Brother David, and if we can, we’re going to have to move on, brother, because we’re going to run out of time here. We still have ample time, but we have still a lot. We’re not even in the Kingdom.

Yeah. The Joel 2:2 verse. I would hold that this is the ancient worthy speaking up to Spare your people, O Lord, and do not make your inheritance a disgrace with the nations jeering at them. I think this is at the climax of Jacob’s trouble that the ancient worthies are on the scene at this time. Over.

Thank you, brother. Brother David, go ahead. Yeah, a couple more scriptures. In Isaiah, chapter 1, verse 25, it describes the resurrection of the ancient worthies in these words it says, and I will turn my hand upon thee, speaking of Israel, and thoroughly purge away thy dross and take away thy tin, and I will restore thy judges as at first, and thy counselors as at the beginning afterward, that shall be called the city of righteousness, a faithful town. So the ancient worthies, many of them were in fact judges in the past.

And we remember what was the function of a judge in the book of Judges. It was to deliver Israel from the enemies. So this is suggestive that the function that they had in in the Old Testament is a function that they will had here at the beginning, and this purging way of the dross and tin, there are several other scriptures that we don’t have time to go into gives us the reason why the Lord permits the enemy to have a fair degree of success at the outset is because it does a dividing work. It divides those who are believing in the Abrahamic covenant, believing in God, as faithful as they can be to the knowledge that they have from those that don’t.

And we know that within Israel there are many that are atheists and agnostic, have nothing to do with Israel. It. So it is with that part of Israel, those faithful Israel, that the new covenant is made. I agree with Brother Len at that point, and one more item In Isaiah chapter 66, it talks about the gathering of all nations and it mentions, I will set a sign among them.

I think that there’s good reason to believe that that sign among them is in fact the ancient worthies on the scene during that time of turmoil world over. Thank you. Thank you all. Brother. That, that was very enlightening and I appreciate it personally.

For better clarity for myself. Okay, we’re going to move on past the ancient worthies now. We see the resurrection has come to the ancient worthies. Who is left? And that’s mankind.

So I think it’s fair to say that at that point, the scripture peace, be still and know that I am God is spoken and the trouble’s over, and then the resurrection starts on earth, whatever year, decade that may be. So we have mankind promised to be raised from the dead. Does God have a specific order into mankind’s resurrection? And we don’t want to spend a lot of time on this because we still have a second question.

So who would like to be first on that? Where will resurrection start for mankind? Brother David, and then, brother, I think one of the principles we use, the last shall be first and first last. So it would seem that a very logical order of the raising of mankind into the process of resurrection, the process of perfection, would begin with those that have lived most recently and then proceed in a generational way all the way back to the time of Adam.

Over. Thank you, brother. Brother Lynn, go ahead. I think that’s. I generally agree with that.

Although there’s one scripture that’s my 24.

Some of you are still not muted. Please mute yourself. Thank you. Micah 4 in the second verse and Micah 4, I think generally is describing Israel’s role in the kingdom. It says Micah 4:2 says, Many nations shall go and say, come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, the house of the God of Jacob.

And he will teach us of his ways and we will walk in his path. For out of Zion will go forth the law, the word of Jehovah, from Jerusalem. Now, it’s true, we’ve said, I think the ancient worthies will be there, but I also think that Israel. One of the things you mentioned, George, will Israel be raised first? It’s an intriguing question, which I don’t think we can answer scripturally, but I think it does say that Israel has to be converted and they have to have place before the general resurrection of the rest of the world take place, because they’ve got to go somewhere with this.

So I think there is some idea that God will perhaps start in Israel with the resurrection. But generally I agree that it’s the last first and the first last the rest of the world that will come. So does it mean every Jew gets resurrected first? I don’t know, because I think it could be the conversion of Israel comes from the ancient worthies, and perhaps there is a resurrection there, but not necessarily every Jew that’s resurrected first that is there. So thank you, Brother David.

I just want to make one quick statement. Micah4.2 says, come, let’s go to the.

To the mountain of Lord. I’m misquoting it now. I had it in my head. But it implies that there has to be a recognization or a reconciling, that the only way to get these blessings is to go to. To Israel, to the ancient world.

These. The blessings are coming. They’re. They’re speaking of the blessings, not flowing through them, but throwing to the world to them. So I think the natural inclination is that it will start in Israel and grow outside.

You’re right there, Brother Len. We can’t say specifically because Israel has to have a reckoning too. Brother David, go ahead. Yeah, I’m going to add one little interesting suggestion here as well. I like the thought that Brother Len has.

The starting with Israel, the starting with the Jews there. That’s where the holy remnant will be, and that’s with whom the new covenant will be made, and so all the blessings start out. But it occurred to me some years ago that the seed of Abraham also includes the Arabs. Now, the Arabs have been a traditional enemy.

But my opinion, I think that the removal of the blindness from the eyes of Israel is going to proceed almost immediately to those Arabs that are descended of Abraham for the same reason they are the seed of Abraham, enemies though they be. I think that especially when, when Abraham comes on the scene, the Arabs are going to be among the first, maybe the first after Israel to accept what’s going on. Over. Thank you, brother. That thought may be better represented in our next question.

Hopefully we get to it soon. Brother Brad, go ahead.

I’ll just add that first, I think the Lord is going to deal with mankind, especially in Israel that survived Jacob’s trouble and with the world that survive Armageddon. He’s going to deal with the living first. I think scriptures in Ezekiel show us that the general resurrection may not happen for quite a few years because the Lord will want to clean up the earth so that when those do come forth from the grave, they won’t be battling anything from the old order in order to help their raising up process. I’ll just add that over. Thank you, brother.

That’s actually an interesting thought. My mind, as soon as you said that, my mind went to the four years that brother Lenny talked about. I don’t know why I made that connection. Maybe, maybe it was valid, maybe not, but I, I had not heard that. But interesting.

Do any of you. Brother. Now we’ve covered resurrection, I think reasonably well. I can’t say exhaustively, but I’m very happy with the, the discussion we’ve had and all the points brought out. We’ve covered that.

It has started with our Lord, it continued on with the church and is still continuing after the church is gone, then the great multitude, and then once that happens, then the earthly faith starts with the ancient worthies and then to the world of mankind in general until it fills the earth. I think it’s a beautiful thought. Does any of you have anything else to add on that question and that topic before we move on? No. Okay.

Okay. So our second question of the day, and like I said, it came up in a discussion we had in class and I think it worthy of discussion, and I want to know scripturally, is there any scriptures that can tell us or lead us to the thought that when Adamic death stops, and I’ll just clarify that, does Adamic death start, stop immediately at the onset of the kingdom, when resurrection starts, or does it continue? Who would like to go? Brother Brad?

Yeah. I have a scripture. I think Adamic death is a legal matter. Once that blood is applied, once the church and the ancient worthies who were all spirit begotten, they were all under the blood. When that’s all returned back to justice, the Lord will apply that blood on behalf of all of mankind and it will be a one step process.

And I take this from Joshua, chapter three. Joshua chapter three, and this narrative begins early in the morning on the third day, the start of a new day. The millennial kingdom. Here at the time the nation of Israel has to cross the Jordan river in order to enter the promised Land.

We know the Jordan river represents Adamic condemnation, sin and death as it flows into the Dead Sea, where there’s no hope of escape. Verses 3 and 4 Joshua 3 and they commanded the people, saying, when you see the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord your God, with the Levitical priests carrying it, then you shall set out from your place and go after it. However, there shall be between you a space of about 2000 cubits in measure. Verses 5 and 6. Then Joshua said to the people, consecrate yourselves, for tomorrow the Lord will do wonders among you.

And Joshua spoke to the priest, saying, take up the Ark of the Covenant and cross over ahead of the people. Verse 8. You shall moreover, command the priests who are carrying the Ark, saying, when you come to the edge of the waters of the Jordan, you shall stand still in the Jordan. So at this time we see a picture. The priests, the Gospel Age Church and the Ark of the Covenant are in front of Israel, who represent the world of mankind.

We notice the priests are at a distance of 2000 cubits ahead of them. This could represent the church would enter the Jordan in sacrificial death during the Gospel Age, which would roughly be 2,000 years long before the world can safely cross the Jordan. Adamic death into the kingdom. Verses 15 and 17 and when those who carried the Ark came into the Jordan and the feet of the priests carrying the Ark were dipped in the edge of the water, the waters which were flowing down from above stood up and rose up in one heap a great distance away at Adam, the city that is beside Zara Neth and those which were flowing down toward the sea of Arabah, the salt sea, the Dead Sea, were completely cut off. So the people crossed opposite Jericho, and the priests who carried the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord stood on dry ground in the middle of the Jordan, while all Israel crossed on dry ground until the entire nation had finished crossing the Jordan.

So we observe that when the souls of the priests. This is during the harvest time, it mentions when the last footstep members of Jesus body entered death. When they enter the Jordan, the waters then are dammed up in a heap at Adam. Doesn’t that send shivers up your back? The waters of Jordan will no longer flow into the Dead Sea.

Adamic death, sin and death will be completely stopped. The people cross on dry ground because the curse of Adam won’t stick to their feet of the people now freed from the Adamic curse. When the priest class is complete, the second man, the second Adam will then apply the merit of his sacrifice on behalf of the world of mankind and remove Adamic condemnation. He will stop the flow of Jordan river at Adam as they enter over into the kingdom. So it’s a legal matter.

Adamic death will stop immediately and I’ll maybe stop there and the brothers can share their thoughts. Thank you, Brother Brad. I appreciate your enthusiasm and your scriptures. That was very good. Brother Lynn or Brother David?

Either one. Brother David, go ahead. Well, I have a little bit different opinion on the matter. In Isaiah, chapter 35, the description of the highway of holiness says, an highway shall be there in a way, and it should be called the way of holiness. The unclean shall not pass over it, but it shall be for the redeemed, the wayfaring men, yea, fools, shall not err therein.

Notice that the unclean are not on the highway of holiness. Now, the highway of holiness, in my understanding, represents those that have accepted the terms of the new covenant by consecration at that time. It’s not consecration unto death in this case. It’s consecration to doing the will of Jesus and the will of God. But it says the unclean will not walk.

It sort of suggests that there’s still some early in the kingdom that do not cooperate, and I think we have this verified by some other scriptures. In Zechariah 14, 16, 19, we have the context of the time when the kingdom is being set up, and during that turmoil we mentioned earlier. Reading from verse 16, it shall come to pass that everyone that is left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem.

Okay, so this is after the turmoil has been settled, shall go up from year to year to worship the King Jehovah of hosts and to keep the feast of tabernacles, and it shall be that whoso of all the families of the earth goeth not up to Jerusalem to worship the King Jehovah of hosts. Upon them there shall be no rain. Reading a little bit further, and if the family of Egypt go not up and come not up, neither shall it be upon them there shall be plague, wherewith Jehovah will smite the nations that go not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all nations that go not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. I think we here we have a definition of the unclean. Those that are not cooperating. Now, what does it mean that there’s no rain or there’s a plague upon them. This sounds bad no matter how you cut it.

But I think one answer, one simple answer, may be that to all of those that do not avail themselves of the terms of the New Covenant, they simply get no New Covenant blessings. Now, what can this mean? It just means that life goes on the way it was during the age of sin and death. They still get sick, they die, they have famine in the land, maybe because of no rain, plagues. You can take that any way you want.

It’s all negative stuff. Until someone takes advantage. Any individual in the kingdom at that time of the terms of the new Covenant, they are not yet out of the Adamic death condition. Now, I don’t think that this is going to last a real long time, but it sort of suggests that early on there would be those that drag their feet, as it says in Isaiah 35, the unclean they do not cooperate, and so they do not escape endemic death. Now, how long would that last?

I don’t imagine it would last a long time. Who wants to die? Who wants to get sick? Those both would be incentives to get with the program and to follow through. So I think that endemic death will continue for some time at least.

The endemic curse, if not death itself, would continue sometime early in the millennium until everyone gets on board with the requirement, and by the way, Brother Brad, I like the thought, you know, that the. The resuscitation phase may be delayed because there’s cleanup and there’s organized reorganization and other things that have to be done. I know Brother David Duran has a talk where he suggests it’s 210 years. I’m not exactly persuaded of that.

And by the way, he gets that from the seven months times 30. That’s where he gets it from. But I think it’s reasonable to assume that there would be some period of time of adjustment, maybe during this time where people are still getting their heads in order and trying to obey God before the resuscitation begins over. Okay, before. Brother Lynn, just.

We have a slight difference of thought. I shouldn’t say a slight. There’s a difference in those two thoughts presented. Both have value. Both have value.

Both have scriptural reference. But I do think there is some common ground, and I want to. If we have time left, I want to touch on the common ground between both of your thoughts. Now, we’ll go to you, Brother Lenny. Just a reminder, George, I have to leave immediately at 11:30, right?

My time. 9:30, for our own meeting. I’M chairman for the Galatians. So we have seven. I will just say, okay, I do believe that there, yes, Adamic sin, or I mean death, continues into the millennial age.

Now, it was very interesting, 1913 and the question book. Someone asked Pastor Russell, will there be any further dying of the Adamic death after Messiah’s kingdom will be established? And he said yes. I mean, he believed that there would be. In fact, he goes so far as to say that someone that doesn’t die, the Adamic death goes into the kingdom, will give.

Be given a certain amount of time, and then they would not be resurrected if they go into death. Now you can read it. It’s on page 213 because I’m not doing justice to it, but on page 213 of the question book. But this the reason I like the idea and this has always bothered me, the scripture we use in Isaiah 65, 20 that says a child, you know, there will neither be an infant of any days nor an old man that has not filled out his days. The child that shall die a hundred years old in the sinner being a hundred years old shall be a curse.

It always kind of bothered me. What does that mean? I think that that hundred years being a curse. Now, I don’t know if it’s a hundred, and I don’t mean this to be a radical idea, but the idea is that that represents those who are going into the kingdom and do not respond. It’s not saying that everybody gets a hundred years.

I believe they get a period of time. But to me, the final Exam of Revelation 20:13 is all about that test to inherit the kingdom. I don’t think you have to go through that twice as someone. So the point is that, yes, I think verse 17 says that the idea is that someone will bless. I create new heavens and a new earth.

Oh, I’m sorry, that’s Isaiah 65. Yeah, 16 and 1617.

But so the point is, yes, I think there takes some time for them to get there, and the estimate to me of a hundred years, I don’t know if it’s 100 years, but I think it may be figurative, saying that those that live through into the kingdom will be given a period of time to conform, or then they will, they will die accursed. Why are you accursed? You’re not a curse. If you’re resurrected, you don’t have the Adamic sin anymore, but they would still have that Adamic sin.

Of course, we know in 1925, Brother Rutherford, you know, wrote a booklet Called millions now living will never die. I don’t. I’m not subscribing to that. But the idea is, I think the general resurrection work begins, but that there still is Adamic death for those that live through. If they don’t turn around and they’re given a period of time to do that.

I got more I could say, but I’ll sort of stop there. We are quickly running out of time. We are down to just a few minutes. So keep that in mind as you offer your answer. Brother Brad, go ahead.

Yeah, it’s not Adamic death, but the effects of Adamic death, and Jeremiah 31, verse 29 and 30 explains this. In those days, they will not say again, the fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children’s teeth are set on edge. But everyone will die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge, for their teeth are set on edge.

And every man will die for his own iniquity. So it’s the effects of Adamic death that mankind will have to rise up from as they walk the highway of holiness over. All right. The only thing I’m going to add to that, and this is an interesting discussion, we cannot come to an agreement or conclusion. Of course, it’s future, so someday we’ll know for sure.

But that does present one problem. If there is a damaging death to the one scripture, and it comes to mind, the last shall be first and the first shall be last. Because those that are resurrect. If resurrection is taking place, then it kind of nullifies that thought because there’ll be people that die after them, which would be more recent. Just a thought.

Okay. In conclusion, brother, I know Brother Lenny has other commitments that we want to honor them. In conclusion, one final thought from any of you. Go ahead, George. I’ll just say when you ask the question, how long does resurrection take?

We did some calculations on that for an article in the Herald some time back, and the general resurrection work begins. If the resurrection includes 60 billion people, which I think that’s a high estimate, but using an increase in a population of 2 to 4% a year, which would be required to produce the kind of environment that could support that. The resurrection would take about 205 years. So keep in mind you got a thousand years devoted to learning and character development, that really is plenty of time for people to respond.

Thank you, Brother Lynn. I appreciate that. Yeah, we didn’t get to that portion, but that’s okay. That could be left for another discussion. Brother David do you have any final thoughts?

Yeah, a final thought. Final scripture. We’ve already quoted a number of scriptures that, that talk about the acquiescent response for many nations of the world. Let us go up to the, to the, to Mount Zion. That’s where God is.

That’s where things are working on. In order to have a blessing, they have to subscribe to the new covenant. But they’re not Jews, so what do they do? I love this scripture, and in Isaiah 44:5, one shall say, I am Jehovah’s and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob.

And another shall subscribe with his hand unto Jehovah and surname himself by the name of Israel. I love this scripture because the new covenant is for the seed of Abraham. The world is not. But they will become part of the seed of Abraham by saying, you know, I’m part of Jacob, I’m part of Israel, and to that extent when they do that, then they will be able to imbibe of all the blessings of the new covenant over.

Thank you brother David. Brad, you have last word then?

Yeah. Thank you brothers. Just to remember, resurrection isn’t a one time event. It’s a process. The gospel age church is being raised now.

Walking in newness of life. The faithful unto death will receive the ex anastasis, a body fit for that new mind within us. Mankind on the other hand, will go through an ex anastasis. They have to remove the effects of Adamic sin within themselves until they reach anastasis of full standing, even through the little season over. Well brethren, thank you, thank you so very much for your participation.

Ending with smiles on your faces. I like that. This has been very wonderful for us here in West Newton. I hope it’s been a blessing to those who tuned in and to those who participated it. To me it seems like the Lord had his hand on our shoulders as we walk through this today.

And I appreciate that. I learned a lot and I appreciate all your research. For the sake of time, I’m just going to offer a closing prayer so we can all bow our heads. But before I do, I just want to mention that I am. This is recorded and we are going to be putting this on.

I believe it’s the Bible students channel on YouTube. I’m not sure where else, but it’ll be online for those who, who might want to catch it again, and if you have any follow up questions, you’re welcome to contact any one of us, myself or anyone else on the panel and hopefully we can satisfy your needs.

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