Smiting of Jordan

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Short Summary
The discussion centers on the significance of Elijah and Elisha as types representing the church at the end of the Gospel age, particularly focusing on Elijah’s actions in striking the Jordan River. Participants explore scriptural references and interpretations that suggest Elijah symbolizes the church’s preparatory work for the second coming of Christ, while Elisha represents the great company or the faithful remnant. The conversation also touches on potential messages the church might convey, including the restoration of Israel and warnings against church-state unions, as they relate to the overarching themes of prophecy and fulfillment in biblical texts.

Long Summary
### Summary of the Discourse on Elijah as a Type of the Church

Introduction to the Topic:
– The discussion revolves around the significance of Elijah and his relationship to the Church at the end of the Gospel Age.
– The speaker acknowledges the complexity of the topic and the varying levels of understanding among participants.

Scripture Reading:
– The group reads the first 11 verses of 2 Kings 2, detailing the ascension of Elijah and his encounter with Elisha.
Key Events:
– Elijah and Elisha travel from Gilgal to Bethel, then to Jericho, and finally to the Jordan.
– Elijah performs a miracle by parting the Jordan River with his mantle.
– Elisha asks for a double portion of Elijah’s spirit.
– Elijah ascends to heaven in a whirlwind, accompanied by a chariot of fire.

Key Questions Raised:
– Why should Elijah represent the Church at the end of the Gospel Age?
– The group discusses scriptural references that support the idea that Elijah is a type of the Church.
Malachi 4:5-6: Elijah is prophesied to return before the Lord’s great day.
Matthew 11:14: Jesus identifies John the Baptist with Elijah.
Luke 1:17: John the Baptist is described as coming in the spirit of Elijah.

Elijah and John the Baptist:
– John the Baptist is seen as a fulfillment of the Elijah type, which leads to the inquiry of Elijah’s representation of the Church.
– Participants share their views on how John the Baptist’s role parallels the Church’s mission in preparing for Christ’s second coming.

Discussion Points:
– Participants explore various perspectives on Elijah’s role and its implications for the Church.
– The conversation includes references to Elijah’s actions and their significance, such as striking the Jordan and the implications of his mantle being passed to Elisha.
– The group considers the concept of the Church fulfilling a preparatory role, similar to Elijah.

The Mantle and Its Symbolism:
– The passing of the mantle signifies the continuation of the prophetic work and the responsibilities of the Church.
– The smiting of the Jordan represents a dividing message that the Church may deliver at the end of the age.

Scriptural References Supporting Elijah as the Church:
– Revelation 11:3 and 12:6 are cited to illustrate the role of the Church during a period of prophetic witness.
– The discussion emphasizes the importance of having scriptural backing for claims regarding biblical types.

The Nature of the Message:
– The group contemplates what the message of Elijah (and by extension, the Church) could be at the end of the age.
– Potential themes include the restoration of Israel and warnings against church-state unions, akin to John the Baptist’s confrontation with Herod.

Conclusion:
– The discourse culminates in the understanding that Elijah’s actions and the mantle are representative of the Church’s mission and challenges.
– Participants conclude that the Church’s role is to prepare for Christ’s return, with Elijah symbolizing the faithful witnessing and the passing of truth through generations.

### Bible Verses Mentioned
Malachi 4:5-6: “Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.”
Matthew 11:14: “And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who is to come.”
Luke 1:17: “…to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children…”
Revelation 11:3: “…they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred threescore days clothed in sackcloth.”
Revelation 12:6: “…the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God…”

### Key Themes
Preparation for Christ’s Return: The Church’s role in heralding the second coming.
Types and Antitypes: The relationship between Elijah, John the Baptist, and the Church.
Message of Division: The potential messages that may cause division in contemporary society.

Transcript

This was a topic assigned by the Brethren in Highland Park, and I think it is important because it’s one of those areas that we perhaps don’t have definitive answers for. What I want to do, first of all, because I know we all are at different stages of studying something like this. I want to put up. We’ll have red, the first 11 chapters.

That would take the whole thing. First 11 verses of Second Kings, chapter two. Because that’s really what we’re going to be dealing with here today, with this. So the Brethren attend our Tuesday night study. I like to have these read because sometimes there’s names, others.

But it’s much easier to listen and follow along in your Scriptures. So I’m going to share my screen and pull up this second chapter, and I’ll stop it after the first 11 verses are read. Okay?

And it came to pass when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. Then Elijah said to Elisha, stay here, please. For the Lord has sent me on to Bethel. As the Lord lives and as your soul lives, I will not leave you. So they went down to Bethel.

Now, the sons of the prophets who were at Bethel came out to Elisha and said to him, do you know that the Lord will take away your Master from over you today? Yes, I know. Keep silent. Then Elijah said to him, elisha, stay here, please. For the Lord has sent me unto Jericho.

As the Lord lives and as your soul lives, I will not leave you. So they came to Jericho. Now the sons of the prophets who were at Jericho came to Elisha and said to him, do you know that the Lord will take away your Master from over you today? Yes, I know. Keep silent.

Then Elijah said to him, stay here, please. For the Lord has sent me on to the Jordan. As the Lord lives. As your soul lives, I will not leave you. So the two of them went on, and 50 men of the sons of the prophets went and stood facing them at a distance while the two of them stood by the Jordan.

Now Elijah took his mantle, rolled it up and struck the water.

And it was divided this way and that, so that the two of them crossed over on dry ground, and so it was when they had crossed over that Elijah said to Elisha, ask, what may I do for you before I am taken away from you? Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me. You have asked a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you.

But if not it shall not be. So then it happened as they continued on and talked that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire and separated the two of them.

Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Okay, brethren, so that’s if you haven’t read it in a while. That was new King James Version, by the way. But I think that’s really the subject at which we’ll be talking about, and obviously verses seven and eight are the ones that are mentioned in this first question that we have. Elijah, Elisha, sons of the prophets are all standing there.

He strikes his mantle. The first question comes up is why should we think that Elijah represents the church at the end of the gospel age? That’s really the first question that pops up. If this is a type, why should we think that Elijah is a type of the church? I gave some scriptures, but I’d like to hear.

If you want to read these scriptures, we can read these, but I’d like your thoughts. Let’s read these scriptures first. Malachi 4, 5 and 6 is the first one. I’m going to ask people to read this and I’ll call on those that have their video on if I can. Sister Andrea, you want to read that?

Malachi 4, 5 and 6.

Yes. One moment.

Last chapter, last book in the old testament, Malachi 4, 5 and 6. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord, and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. Okay, and let’s remember that which I’ll send Elijah the prophet to you.

Now the next verse. Matthew 11:14. Sister Joanna, could you read that one for us?

Yes, there is taking a moment. Okay.

Matthew 11:14.

Apologize. My computer jumped a different spot. There we go, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. Who is he talking about there, Joanna?

John the Baptist. John the Baptist. Okay, so there we have at least a statement from Jesus. Luke 1:17. Sister Coretta, you want to read that one for us, please?

Yes. Luke 1:17, and he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the justice to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Sister Coretta, who is he referring to there? Do you remember John the Baptist as well?

John. John the Baptist, Right. Okay, next, let’s look at that was Luke 1:17 right? Yep. Matthew 17, 11, 13.

Sister Nanette, did you read that one for us? Yes.

Jesus replied to be sure Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come and they do not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way, the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands. Then the. The to 14, then the disciples just through 13.

Okay. Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. All right, so we got all these four scriptures that tell us that Elijah was a John the Baptist, was a picture or was a fulfillment of the Elijah type.

I think we’ve got pretty good, at least pretty good evidence in these, that Elijah did represent John the Baptist. So the question comes then, why should we think Elijah also represents the church at the end of the Gospel age? So this one I’m going to entertain your ideas on before I say anything about it and raise your hand if you’ve got something that you’d like to share with us. Okay. I saw Andrea’s hand physically and pop up.

So I’ll get her, and then Kathy Sandridge next. Yeah, because I think in what my thought is that in the Matthew 17, Elias can also represent Christ and the church.

That’s also my thought on this. Okay, and what gives you think that that is shown by Matthew? What is just Jesus say there that makes you think? Because he’ll restore all things. He will come and restore all things.

And the church is the only entity Christ and the church is the only entity that can do that through God over. Okay. All right, good thoughts. Kathy Sandridge. Yeah, I.

I was also going to reference Matthew 17, but it seems as though in the book of Second Kings, Elisha has mentioned a few times his interactions with Ahab and Jezebel and when he was fed the ravens. I’ve always understood that Elijah in these verses pictured the church, and if we question who Elijah would represent, I guess we’d want to know who Elisha represents, and I’ve always reasoned that Elijah represents the church at the end of this gospel age, walking and talking together with Elisha, who would represent the great company. Thank you.

Okay. All right, good. Sister Nanette. So when you asked, why do you think the Matthew 17 verses, you know, what leads us to believe that it also refers to the church? I think it refers to Jesus because everything he says about John the Baptist is true of him.

They did not recognize who Jesus was and they have done terrible things to him. So on an elementary level, that’s a kind of a powerful Scripture for me, and if the brethren feel good about extending that to the whole church class, I don’t have any objection. But at my level, I keep it simple. Yeah.

One of the things we want to do, if we can, is sort of pin it on scriptures that lead us to believe this because you’re right, we can. There’s some very interesting things that Brother Russell said about types and making types that may not be shown in the scriptures. But we want to see if we can pin this down with scripture. So I appreciate your saying, you know that I think it was Jesus and but if the brethren want to make this, I’d like to see if we have scriptures that we can sort of use to do that. So I’m glad you brought that up.

Brother George, in answer to your original question, why would we think that Elijah represents the church at the end of the age? I think it doubles back because we saw we listened to all the scriptures that referenced Elijah referring to John the Baptist, and John the Baptist, when you double back, he represents the church in many ways because after our Lord was gone, it’s up to the church to preach that word in the coming kingdom before the Lord comes in glory and we are still here and we are beheaded for Christ’s sake. So I think there’s, I think it in that and I don’t have the particular scriptures but I think they’re enough known that John the Baptist does represent the church on this side of the veil beheaded for Christ and making preparing the way for the Lord. So I look at it in that sense over.

You brought up another interesting point and that’s rather not John the Baptist is a we have here pretty good proof that was we know John the Baptist was the fulfillment of of its I, we’ve been told that and it would be good as you say if we had any scriptures that said John the Baptist because we know that this gets extended in some of the writings especially we look at second volumes that John the Baptist was a type of the church as well. So is Elijah and John the Baptist both a type of the church? If one fulfills it, it makes the challenge for us to say can we do that? But we’re focusing here remember on Elijah as a type of the church, and it’s we want to sort of focus in if we do have some scriptures that might help us support that.

Thanks for your comments, Joanna. One thing that helps me with this is the Matthew 17, 11, 13 because he says that John the Baptist fulfills that type but he also says that Elijah does come this is after John the Baptist’s death and will restore all things. So he’s speaking of a future work, and so with John the Baptist already being dead, it has to refer to somebody else later on. Also the fact that it says that it doesn’t say in this particular scripture, but I believe it was back in the Luke one where it said that he would come before the coming of the Lord.

Right, thank you, and so that that ties it in with the second presence, and so the reasoning on that that I can see would be that the church is there doing that work at the second presence before, just before the second presence and during the second presence. Thank you. Okay, thanks.

And again, that points to Elijah representing some work that the church does at the end of the age beyond what John the Baptist said. So there’s some thought that we can get that. Yes, it is, and we’ll keep narrowing down until we can pinpoint maybe scripture. Brother Julius, Brother Len.

Thank you brethren. Delightful to be with you. Delighted to be with you. It’s. I always learn something from these sessions for which I’m grateful for the labor of love sacrifice you, Brother George, and your studies.

You no doubt about it. What you know, an overall overall compliment that I give to all the scriptures that you read and the comments are given. Overall, I ask you a question. Is there a doubt that the church is doing has been doing a preparatory work? Of course not.

That’s been a mission throughout the gospel age. You know, remember when our Lord at the Matthew 28, the last book in Matthew says, you know, you have this mission, you know, continue, continue witnessing at other scriptures too as the church doing a preparatory work. No doubt about it. Now point number two, I deduce from this scenario which Brother Lin, Brother, I know very little about this smiting of Jordan. It’s always mystif advise me.

But point number two, very basically, brethren, what is it? The deduction is that there is a hierarchy here from Elijah to Elisha.

The logical conclusion has already been made that I’m just confirming that the church. Yes, the great company makes sense. Over.

Well, okay, I’m going to ask people not to put chats up, please. I can’t focus on the chats. If you have a comment that you think is worthy to share to everyone, I want you to put your video on, raise your hand. It’s all I’m asking because otherwise it gets too confusing. So I appreciate that.

Thank you. Okay, thank you, Brother Julius, Brother Brian.

So I’m mindful of your question. You want scriptures and look as Bible Students, we should always have scriptures because otherwise we’re just offering opinions and everyone has an opinion, and so I’m going to, and Brian, as Jim Parkinson always says, everyone is entitled to my opinion.

There you go. There you go. I want to make, I want to offer a scripture, but I’m going to give an inference from the scripture nonetheless. I don’t know how close that comes, but that’s, that’s what I’m going to do.

I want to go to the book of John, and these are the words of John the Baptist from John 3:30, and this is in response to a question between some of his disciples and the Jews about, about purifying. Yeah, I think it’s about purifying and staying that he was not, he was not the price. But this is what John said.

He said he must increase, but I must decrease, and so here’s my inference. What I get from that scripture alone with John the Baptist refer to Jesus and himself. What he’s suggesting is that as our Lord’s ministry increase and became more public, certainly after John was put into prison, John’s work and influence of baptizing for the remission of sins would soon go away. So the same thing or principle I would suggest applies to the John class of the gospel age, particularly at the end of the age, our numbers continue to get smaller and that’s evidenced by classes shrinking and convention sizes decreasing and the like.

But the more than overcomers of the gospel age, which was part of Brother George’s service that we just had, as they increase on the other side of the veil, we see that shrinker, we see that shrinkage. But the more than overcoming class has not increased to the capacity, which is why we’re still here to discuss these things. So that’s not pinpoint specific as to perhaps your question between John the Baptist representing the church at the end of the age. But since John did attest that he must that the Lord’s work or the Lord would increase as he decreased, we do see a reduction of the Lord’s people at the end of the age. So that’s an inference.

That’s my comment. All right, thanks. Well, I want to move on to two scriptures I think do give us a pretty good indication. That’s question number two that you see there, that the church is represented by Elijah, and this one I think we can tie.

And it leads us then to say, okay, why should we look at Elijah then as a type? I think we find a problem around John the Baptist and it’s beyond the scope of what we’re going to be talking about here. But these two scriptures in Revelation, I mentioned Revelation 11:3 and 12:6. I’d like to read those two. So I’ll ask again, Sister Andrea, you want to turn to Revelation 11:3, and you can read both these if you would.

11, 3 and then 12, 6. Okay. Revelation 11:3 reads, and I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred three score days clothed in sackcloth, and twelve, six reads, and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God that they should feed her there. A thousand 203 score days.

Now, if you listen to Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address, you would know what is three score. Andrea, how many years is that? 30, 60, 90? No. Okay, right.

So we have a four score. He says three scores. So we have 1260 days here. Okay, and he’s saying that the church is in the wilderness or that somebody’s in the wilderness for 1260 days.

And if we know from the book of Daniel. Right. That prophecy was about the time that there was really no truth going out the 1260 days. Right. That ended in 1799.

Okay. So that was the period of time he’s talking about when there was very little truth. So I think those can lead us to the point to say the church was similar to Elijah in being in the wilderness for that time. I want to put up a chart that some of you may know and know very well, but this is a chart from the second volume that shows this comparison between Elijah and the church, and it just.

If you haven’t looked at this, it’s worthwhile that we have a comparison here with several scriptures going along about Elijah being persecuted at the end of 1260 days to 1260 years of power. All these in this first kings, Elijah, all about the comparison between Elijah and the church. So I think we’ve got a pretty good case that we can make that Elijah, yes, does represent, and it’s similar to the church at the end of the age. That’s the one we focus on.

Any thoughts or questions on that idea that the church does represent. Elijah represents the church at the end of the age in this sense, and then what we’re dealing with, that’s the key for us to understand what may be represented. Then when we get to the end of Elijah’s life before he’s taken out. Dave.

Andrea, not a question. Could you share the chart you just showed us? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. This is from okay. This is from volume two.

Oh, okay. This chart is on page 55, 255 of volume two, and that’s where we look at the comparison between Elijah and the church and why the church is represented by Elijah as well as was sent before where John the Baptist was represented by Elijah. Now we don’t have a similar chart. Let me get rid of this here.

So we don’t have a similar chart and beyond the scope here of saying you have something similar with John the Baptist. Now that’s one that some subscribe to and Pastor Russell thought John the Baptist was. We’re not going to get into that here because that’s a discussion other than say that we don’t have a direct scripture like we do here with the church that says they are represented by John, that they are. John the Baptist is a type of the church. Christy Wilson, go ahead.

Yes, good evening. I got a weird ear problem here, but I was looking at Matthew 11:14 and back to my scripture and then it says that in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus identifies John the Baptist with Elijah, stating he is the Elijah who is to come and see here. If I can get back to my here and looking at the comment here where the the text says, as if ye receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come, and it says, but Israel did not receive John the Baptist as Elisha, nor did they receive the Messiah. Therefore again his presence must be heralded by another who shall come in the spirit and the power of Elijah.

It says John’s work as Elijah did not fail because of his own lack of faith, but because of the Jews unworthiness of heart to be influenced to those who recognized the message and obeyed it and became the Lord’s disciples. John fulfilled the work of Elijah. Likewise today we announce as at hand the reign of the church glorified in point out the foretold antitypical Elijah to those who can receive it. This is Elisha. John the Baptist did a reformatory work which was in full court with the prophecy of recording Elijah.

And then just. I’m gonna go down a little further. Since John the Baptist stood for or represented a multitudious Elijah as Jesus stood for or represented a multitudinous Christian as John did in Elijah work to Israel. So the church does the predicted Elijah work to the world, announcing the Lord’s second advent.

That’s expressing the thought that John also was a representative. It’s very unusual, and I’m not saying yes or no to that, just unusual to say that someone who is the antitype is also the type of something else. John the Baptist certainly fulfilled an antitype, but here we’re talking about Elijah and the work of Elijah as the church at the end of the age, not John the Baptist. We’re talking about Elijah and what he might represent as far as the church goes at the end of the age, and this member.

The topic is the smiting of the Jordan. Why is it smitten? That was the whole idea behind this idea. That’s why we had to get where we did. What is the message that implies that.

That smiting was a message? We’ll get to that in a second. I want to spend. We’ll spend the last part of our time on that. But I wanted to sort of get us to the point where we say we can see that Elijah and his work also, which was fulfilled by John the Baptist at the end of the Jewish age, is part of what gets fulfilled at the end of the Gospel age.

Okay, Shelley from Kenya, go ahead, please. Hello, brother Lin. I’m sorry you can’t see me, but I’ll just talk, okay? Yeah. Elijah’s unwavering faith and his bold confrontation of injustice and idolatry.

And he was a role, and he and his role, he was a bridge between the. The Old Testament and the New Testament, therefore foreshadowing the coming of the Messiah also in the New Testament. I can’t justify the Scripture, though. In the New Testament, Elijah is mentioned in the return before the coming of the Messiah.

And some see John as a fulfillment, as a fulfillment of his prophecy. Therefore, Elijah played the role of a prophet as a preparation for the way of the Messiah, and this, I think this foreshadowed of the church’s role in preparing the world for the second coming of Christ. Thank you, Ola.

Yeah, we have, here’s, here’s the thing. We can, and we could talk about John the Baptist and what he did, but here’s the point. It’s Elijah that smites the Jordan. Okay.

That has to be, and if that Elijah is a type of the church, which we saw the chart, I think it’s accurate. He is. Then something is represented. Suggestion is something is represented by Elijah smiting that Jordan.

At least that’s. That’s what we’re sort of getting at, and I asked you, or at least said, we look at this reprint 5950, which was kind of the last one. I mean, this is September of 1916. Pastor Russell dies a month later.

The typical experiences of Elijah and Elisha and what smiting of the waters may Mean, he was focused on Elijah there and what that might represent. So that’s where we want to shift now and saying, okay, if we have Elijah was a type of the church and a church at the end of the age, we look at these last experiences, what might this represent? So that’s where we’re going to go. So we’ll start focusing on some of the things that might indicate, as I said, what could lead us to believe that him striking the Jordan with his mantle represents a message. What message would that be?

And then are there any other possibilities? Okay, Brother Julius, Brother Lynn, I’m anxious to hear that. Well, I think, you know, it’s been discussed to the nth degree, so I’m not sure we’re going to add a lot here, but at least we can pin down what we can know and what we can’t know at this point. If I may, Brother Dylan, Sister Joanna and the last sister, they both mentioned the second Advent, and is it not possible?

I mean, it makes sense to me. If anybody did any larger work in preparation and dispensing and promulgating God’s word and preparing Charles Taste Russell, he would fit in that Elijah portrait also over. Well, it’s a good point and we’ll, we’ll get to that because I think it’s a valid point you make. If it is a message, well, that’s pretty strong message. So very good.

Okay. Brother George?

Yeah, Brother Lynn, I have a thought. I have. I’ve had this opinion for a little time now, and I’ll try to make it brief, but it would bear a lot more explanation and I’ll be able to give in the time given. But it had been mentioned earlier and this has to do with the smiting. So I’ll stay on point.

But I’ve always had troubles. It’s like a square peg in a round hole that if we say Elijah represents the church at the end of the age, the next point would be that Elisha represents the great multitude, and I’ve always had troubles with it because they carry the same mantle. Elijah passes his mantle on to Elisha, and if you study Elisha, he does great work, very diligent, very devoted work to the service of the Lord.

So that got me thinking and I started seeing and I’ll just, like I said, I’ll make this brief. But, and this is nothing more than a thought, I’m not solid rock on this, and I’m not trying to throw a wrench in everybody’s thought, but just something to think about, that Elisha asks for a double portion and the river is smitten, and he does visualize Elijah going up, and I came to a thought.

Apostle Paul gives us a mystery that in First Corinthians, chapter 15, that we shall not all sleep, but the sound of the last trump. The dead in Christ shall rise, and the river Jordan is broken in two pieces and it flows two directions. So is it possible that the smiting of the Jordan is how God is dealing with the church? And I say that because.

And it’s a suggestion. Again, I want to reiterate this as a suggestion that is it possible that Elisha represents the sleeping saints and the message comes out and even the 1260 works, because if you add that to the 539, when the papacy is actually formed, that comes to 1799, which is the man of sin is revealed. That all falls in. We’re still in the wilderness. So is it possible that the smiting of the Jordan is how God is dealing with the church?

The sleeping saints, and then Elisha could possibly represent the saints who are changed in the twinkling of an eye. A more current dealings with the church. Now, there’s other things as well, but I’m just putting that out there as a suggestion only, and I’ve had that thought.

And there’s other supportive scriptures, if you look at them, that may help understand that, but that may be a possibility. The smelling of the Jordan is the raising of the sleeping saints, and, and I’ll just leave it at that. Okay.

And we’re. We won’t necessarily comment on that. I think it’s a thought. I appreciate the thoughts. We’ll keep trying to focus on this picture of Elijah and that mantle.

So br.

So I’m very thankful again that you were willing to accept this assignment with very little diversity of thought.

But let me suggest this because this, this, this can be a very, and has been for, for years, a challenging discussion for the Lord’s people, at least during our generation, to get our heads and our minds around.

Brother Julius did offer a thought, which mine is somewhat parallels from the standpoint that when I look at the pastor’s day and contrast that with our day, as far as messaging is concerned, you know, the pastor had a unified message that was promulgated worldwide. Worldwide. Even if we go back to the time of when the, when the photo drama came out and that went out worldwide. But when we contrast that with our day and the various.

How should I put it, Bible student camps, as it were, a lot of them are pretty much centered on what I would just call the general themes of God’s plan of atonement. But there’s a lot more varieties among us today. I think we’re a bit more for those that are familiar with Baskin Robbins 31 flavors, as opposed to the pastor’s day, where there was more of a unified, harmonious message. So I, I, I appreciate that, that comment that if there was a smiting message, perhaps that took place through his ministry and particularly near the end of his ministry, but that’s what I would offer.

Okay. All right. Okay. But when we think about what was the Elijah work, and again, I’m going to focus on Elijah because I think we can, hopefully we’ve come to a conclusion that’s one we can prove from Scripture that Elijah does represent the church. Rather Elisha represents something.

In other words, it’s built on that idea. Well, if Elijah was, then Elisha should, and also when we talk about John the Baptist, well, if he was a fulfillment, then maybe he represents. So thinking just about Elijah, what was the work that Elijah accomplished at the first adventure? What would you say?

John?

It ended. He pointed to Jesus, certainly, as we said here, Elijah and Israel was not converted. They were rejected, as we know, for 1845 years, and Elijah at the second advent says he continues this work, as Malachi says. So the similarities between Elijah and the true church, that 1260 days that we have mentioned in Revelation, we can certainly know that.

And there were three kind of major things that happened when you think about Elijah coming back after that 1260 days in the wilderness and then what happens with the church, and if we have time, we’ll go through those. It’s kind of saying, how do we think this represents a message? But we still haven’t pinned down that message. What is the message and who delivers it? Now, someone said, well, Brother Julius said, who did a greater work at delivering a message than Pastor Russell?

And I mentioned that reprint article 5950 where he admits that part of the work he did, he thought the photodrama was part of that message. Okay. But he wouldn’t conclude that it was all he felt there was still more to come. Again, we’re dealing here with knowing all we have is Elijah smiting the Jordan. We don’t have anything that says this or that, although it was crossing twice.

We still have that point that he smites, doubles that his cloak and smites the Jordan. So let’s see. Andrea, you had your hand up. I don’t want to neglect you. Go ahead.

Well, I, well, I might, I thought The. The message or the. The work was to initially to pull out a people for God’s name. It was to create the church, to create Christ. Was.

Was the. The main point, I think, of God’s divine plan of the ages and all the inferences that led to Christ in. In the. In the Old Testament.

Okay. All right. Very good, Brother George. Scripture comes to mind as you were talking, Brother Lynn, and I think it.

I don’t know if this is the plot you’re thinking, but I’ll offer It is Revelations 18:4.

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, come out of her, my people, that ye not. That ye be not partakers of her sins, that ye receive not of her plagues, and that would fall in line with that time frame that you were discussing, because that was the exodus from the nominal system, and separation of the wheat and the tear is the beginning of it. Over.

Very good. So, yes, if the message. If this is to represent a message, what message, as I said, would it be? What message would the church deliver at the end of the age that would divide the people? That hasn’t been done yet.

You know, what the world is like now. What’s the possibility of the type of message that might come from the Elijah at the end of the age beyond the work that Pastor Russell did? What might be a possibility?

No takers on this one. Well, let me make a suggestion to you. It’s not original with me. It’s the thought that who could do a greater work at this point as a group than what was done during Pastor Russell’s days? It certainly divided the churches, brought people out.

That was a great work. But at that time, there was only one thing that hadn’t really occurred. It only just started, and that was the message with Israel, that Israel was going to be restored and be the kingdom, and that is something that has developed consistently throughout this end of the age and during the harvest period.

And so there was a suggestion that made by some that, you know, a. The message in connection with Israel is an important message in building for the kingdom. Now, the question is, is this the message that would be represented by smiting of the Jordan? Would that be the only message? What other message could the church could the church now give that would divide the people greatly, other than saying that Israel is to be the center of the kingdom?

And how would that come? Anybody got a thought on that? Brother George, where’s your hands? Still up. Sorry.

I’m sorry. My hand was still up. I didn’t mean to pass. Okay. Brother Julius?

Yeah, yeah. That thought, Brother Lynn, came to my mind as the, the crescendo goes, you know, continues to the end of the age, and I, I, that came, you know what, you know, what prompted my, my thinking along this very same line, Brother Len, that you just mentioned, and that is the anti. Semitism in this country. That’s, that’s very divisive right now.

So it’s, you know, another one, Brother Lynn, another possibility, a huge misconception. Revelation 17, I think it is, with the nominal friends, is that when Jesus returns, he will be seen physically by the people. That’s, you know, there’s such a challenging concept to our nominal friends that the Lord Jesus is not going to be seen again as a man. He’s a spirit being. So those two Israel, I think is.

I agree with you. That makes sense to me also. Another possibility is, you know, that Lord Jesus would be, he would be seen physically, which is incorrect. You know, we don’t believe that that divides over. Yeah, I think, I’m not discounting any possibilities, but remember, this has to be something and it’s so big that it divides the world is what was suggested.

Okay. Unless if you’re not a Christian or divides.

And that’s where the difficulty lies. Israel is a worldwide phenomenon, and even if you’re Christian and I’m Christian, you know how that’s a division. So that’s why the suggestion was made, and I’m going to take one more comment here and then we got to wrap things up.

I want to give you at least one thought. I don’t want to leave everybody hanging based on a scripture that we have in First Kings. So go ahead, Shelley from Kenya.

Brother Len, try on this one. Elijah was known for defending the worship of God and performing miracles in God’s name, and that proved that God’s power and glory. Also Elijah was revered by the Jewish, just like the Christians and Muslims. So what I can say is that the role that the symbol of Elijah to the church is that he proved he, he was a symbol of hope and redemption, just as what the church is doing.

And in the New Testament, Elijah is mentioned. It proves that his return is to mark the Messiah’s earthly arrival over.

Thank you very much. We’ve just got two minutes left, so I want to give you just a couple of thoughts, and I know this is, you know, this is not easy. It’s not something everyone gets into. But let me turn to First Kings, chapter 19.

And this was the call in verses 15 to 18. This is just prior to the time Elisha Is this is Elijah, verse 13. Of course you know Elijah. He wrapped his face in the mantle, went out, stood in the entrance of a cave. But here in 15 to 19, 15 to 18 it says the Lord said, this is Elijah.

Go return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus, and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria, Yahu to be king over Israel, and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Amaholah, Shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy step. The last work he does, and it shall come to pass that him that escapeth the sword of Hazle and Ehu him that escapeth from the sword of Yahu shall Elisha say, yet I have left me 7,000 in Israel.

All the knees which have not bowed to BAAL and every mouth looks not kissed in these verses. The reason I mention this is Elijah is told what is expected of him. Elijah both in a typical sense, he never accomplishes that commission. Elisha has to finish the work, and that’s the significance, I think of Elijah, Elijah smiting and then Elijah’s mantle passing on to Elisha.

The work has to continue. The name Elijah. Normally we are associating this with the entire spirit begotten class of Israel or spirit begotten class. But remember, we do have, as someone mentioned, wise and foolish virgin at the end, a remnant of the Elijah class is what is the great company, and they must complete the work.

Verse 19 says, Elijah passes his mantle and his authority to Elisha. That group remains and must carry the banner once the church is complete. I’m going to kind of leave it there, but I want to get Sister Ellie’s comments because she hasn’t mentioned anything, and then we’re going to close and we’ll leave this probably for another day that perhaps could go on. Go ahead, Sister Ellie.

I’d like to comment on the message part if I could. I think John the Baptist, when just before he lost. He lost his life because he complained or railed against the illicit union of.

I can’t even think of the name of the government of.

Anyway, he railed against the king and his brother’s wife. That it was an illicit union. Very herodious. Yes, yes, and that because of that he lost his life.

And I think that this tells us, and I think this is what Brother Russell also thought that there will be. He was railing against the church state union, and I think that that is going to be the final message. That whatever form it takes, I think that that will be the final message.

And the Elijah class. The church will lose their lives because they don’t adhere or agree to the church state union.

Okay, thank you very much brethren. We have to leave it here. I think, as you know, we don’t have. I mean the church is really split up at this point. We’re all over the world.

And I think what you need to look for if we say this message is going to take place is some unification that has to take place between those that are part of that 144 thousand. So anyways, thank you very much for your comments and we’re going to leave it at that.

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