Waiting in Fear of the Lord Panel – Bob G, Tom G, Jim P, David R

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary

Short Summary
The panel discussion explored the concept of “fear of the Lord,” emphasizing its definition as reverential awe rather than terror, its foundational role as the beginning of knowledge and wisdom, and its transformative effect in causing one to hate evil. Participants highlighted practical implications such as fear of the Lord promoting a godly lifestyle that can lead to longevity, strong confidence rooted in faith, and a proper motivation to repent and serve. The discussion concluded with ways to develop this fear through study, humility, self-correction, and active fellowship, underscoring the seriousness of living with reverence and trembling before God for eternal well-being.

Long Summary
Detailed Summary of the Panel Discussion: “Walking in Fear of the Lord”

Introduction and Context:
– The panel discussion is centered on the theme “Walking in Fear of the Lord,” linked closely to the convention’s key scripture:
– Acts 9:31 (paraphrased): The churches had rest throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria, were edified, walking in the fear of the Lord and comfort of the Holy Spirit, leading to multiplication.
– Philippians 2:12 (KJV): “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
– The discussion is informal, focusing on three main aims:
1. Defining “Fear of the Lord.”
2. Explaining its importance.
3. How to develop it.

Defining Fear of the Lord:
– Greek and Hebrew terms were explored:
– Greek “Phobos” (New Testament): commonly means fear or terror, similar to “phobia” in English.
– Old Testament “Yirah”: Often translated as fear or reverence; includes moral reverence and awe.
– Vine’s Dictionary clarifies “fear” as a reverential fear of God, a controlling motive of life, not terror but dread of displeasing God.
– 1 John 4:18: “Perfect love casts out fear” — emphasizing the fear of God is not about terror, but reverence.
– The word “trembling” (Hebrew) often connotes awe, which can be positive (awe of God’s creation) or negative.
– Paul’s usage in 1 Corinthians 2:3: He was with weakness, fear, and much trembling, showing a reverential attitude.
– In English, “fear” can mean both being afraid and showing respect; the Scriptures mostly imply respect and reverence toward God rather than terror.
– The vastness of the universe and God’s personal call to individuals inspire awe and reverence.

Why Fear of the Lord is Important:
– Proverbs 1:7 (various translations): “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and discipline.”
– Proverbs 9:10: “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,” highlighting that wisdom (applied knowledge) flows from reverence for God.
– Understanding the universe’s complexity and the improbability of life by chance (citations of scientific authorities) strengthens the need to fear and revere God.
– Reverential fear is prerequisite to approaching God and receiving His wisdom and knowledge.
– Fear of the Lord causes one to hate evil:
– Proverbs 8:13 (NLT): “All who fear the Lord hate evil.”
– Proverbs 16:6: By the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil.
– “Evil” here is understood as causing hurt or harm, not just sin.
– Reverence for God leads to compassion and hatred of things causing harm to others.
– Fear of the Lord is linked to:
– Prolonging life (Proverbs 10:27; 14:27; 3:1-2):
– Reverential fear leads to a godly lifestyle that tends to healthier living and longevity.
– However, physical longevity is not guaranteed (martyrs, suffering believers), but eternal life is promised.
– Purpose and service to others are emphasized as keys to vitality and longevity.
– Exodus 15:26 underscores obedience to God’s laws leading to health protection.
– Providing strong confidence and security:
– Proverbs 14:26 (Amplified): Reverence leads to strong confidence and refuge.
– Confidence arises from faith in God’s promises (Romans 8:28), not self-reliance.
– Even amid trials, confidence comes from knowing God’s plan and faithfulness.
– Confidence can waver due to personal failings or mental health struggles; prayer, study, and professional help may be needed.
– Leading to riches and honor (Proverbs 22:4):
– The reward of humility and fear of the Lord includes riches, honor, and life.
– This is not necessarily physical wealth; it may refer to spiritual riches, honor, and eternal life.
– Examples like Solomon show God’s blessing with both wisdom and riches.
– Contrast with prosperity gospel: wealth alone is not a sign of God’s blessing (Psalm 73:3,12).
– Faithful stewardship of resources is important.
– The fear of the Lord is foundational to gaining wisdom, avoiding evil, understanding God’s love, and motivating repentance.
– Without reverential fear:
– People close themselves off from God’s wisdom.
– They flirt with and are corrupted by evil.
– They may lack motivation to repent and appreciate God’s love.

How to Develop Fear of the Lord:
– 1 Peter 3:15 (Amplified): Set Christ apart as holy in your heart, always be ready to give a respectful defense of your hope.
– Practical suggestions:
– Study God’s creation and His character to inspire awe and reverence.
– Remember personal faults and corrections as motivation to remain humble.
– Observe and follow good examples; if none exist, set one yourself.
– Be part of community assemblies for encouragement and mutual support (Hebrews 10:25).
– Root your life in Christ (Colossians 2:7), building faith and thankfulness.
– Apply lessons with earnest concern and awareness of eternal stakes (Philippians 2:12).
– Scriptures emphasizing the seriousness and reverence needed include:
– Hebrews 10:31: “It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
– 1 Corinthians 10:21-22: Cannot partake of both the Lord’s table and demons’ table — a call to wholehearted devotion.
– Encouragement to serve others as a key motivation for reverence and purpose.
– Confidence grows when conduct aligns with God’s will; failure requires repentance and correction.

Closing Remarks:
– The panelists express appreciation for the opportunity to share insights.
– Emphasis on the balance of reverential fear and love.
– The fear of the Lord is not terror but a deep respect, awe, and desire to live according to God’s will.
– Encouragement to maintain fear of the Lord with seriousness, humility, and community support.

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Key Bible Verses Mentioned:

– Acts 9:31 (paraphrased)
– Philippians 2:12: “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
– 1 John 4:18: “Perfect love casts out fear.”
– 1 Corinthians 2:3: Paul’s humility and reverence.
– Proverbs 1:7: “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.”
– Proverbs 9:10: “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”
– Proverbs 8:13: “All who fear the Lord will hate evil.”
– Proverbs 16:6: “By the fear of the Lord men depart from evil.”
– Proverbs 10:27 / 14:27: “The fear of the Lord prolongs life.”
– Proverbs 3:1-2: Obedience prolongs life and brings peace.
– Exodus 15:26: Obedience to God’s commandments leads to health.
– Proverbs 14:26: Fear of the Lord gives confidence and refuge.
– Romans 8:28: “All things work together for good.”
– Hebrews 10:25, 31: “Forsake not the assembling of yourselves” and “dreadful to fall into the hands of the living God.”
– 1 Corinthians 10:21-22: “You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons.”
– Colossians 2:7: “Let your roots grow down into Him.”
– Philippians 2:12: “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.”

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Summary Keywords:
Fear of the Lord, reverence, awe, phobos, yirah, wisdom, knowledge, hate evil, prolong life, confidence, riches and honor, humility, service, repentance, salvation, faith, community, study, creation, obedience, eternal life, humility, God’s character, biblical principles, Christian living, Philippians 2:12, Proverbs 1:7, 9:10, 8:13, 14:26, Exodus 15:26, Hebrews 10:31, Colossians 2:7.

Transcript

As Brother Randy stated, our panel this afternoon is entitled Walking in Fear of the Lord. You know, as I look up on the screen, I couldn’t ask for a better panel. I really appreciate our. Our brethren, and rather than having formal questions and then assigning them to individuals, we’re gonna.

We’re gonna let you listen into a discussion this afternoon about this subject.

Of course, it, it. This subject goes off of our key text for the theme text for the convention, then had the churches rest throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria and were edified and walking in fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit. They were. They were multiplied, and the other scripture that we were given was, wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

So these are the assigned scriptures that kind of give us a springboard to go off of. I’ll give you just a brief overview before we get started. We’re going to have three aims in our discussion this afternoon. Number one, defining fear of the Lord. Number two, determining why fear of the Lord is important.

And then number three, developing fear of the Lord.

And so with that, we’re going to start with our definition, and we really need to define this, and who would like to get us started on some of the Greek words that are used in these Scriptures?

Go ahead, Tom.

Well, I looked up both the. The Old Testament word and the New Testament word. I’m kind of amazed that the New Testament word is the Greek word phobos, which we know today as phobia, which is kind of an irrational fear or terror. I’ve experienced that. I have a couple of phobias in my life, and maybe others do too, and they can be terrifying.

But I kind of like the Old Testament word better as I looked in Strong’s concordance, because it says fear or moral irreverence, which is the normal way that we kind of think of this, and I kind of wondered if maybe there just wasn’t another Greek word that carried the meaning of reverence instead of just terror and fear that wasn’t available to be used. But I did like looking it up in Vine’s dictionary better. It says fear, dread, or terror. But it then goes on and gives a second definition of reverential fear of God as a controlling motive of the life in matters spiritual, moral, and not a fear of his power and righteous retribution, but a wholesome dread of displeasing Him, a fear which banishes the Terror that shrinks from his presence.

And it makes me think of the scripture in First John 4. Perfect love casts out fear, and we should not have that kind of fear in our lives, and certainly not that kind of fear of God. I’ll let it go to someone else. Yeah, I really appreciate that side Scripture as well.

Perfect love casts us out fear reminds us of our manatext yesterday. Right.

As we were reading that yesterday morning, I thought, oh, that’s a good one for the panel. Brother Jim, do you want to just jump in? Okay. From the Hebrew students manual. The Hebrew word for fear is year off.

I don’t know that that’s important to us, but the idea is fearing God or man.

And then when we get to the word for trembling in the Hebrew students manual, it is trembling or awe, and many times the New American Standard Bible translates it with the word awe, which can be either in a positive sense or a negative sense. I can be in awe of lightning and thunder, but I can also be in awe of our Heavenly Father for what he is doing, what he has done as the creator of heavens and of earth.

And it’s interesting the way Paul uses the term in First Corinthians 2, 3, concerning Himself, that he says, and I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling.

All right, very good, David. Any thoughts? Well, I did look up these words in strong. You know, I’m not good at Greek or Hebrew, but I was able to determine that in the Greek, whenever I look at the word fear, it’s Almost always either 5399 or 5401. Well, apparently one of them is a verb and the other is a noun.

So that made it clear in my mind when I read these two. For example, I could say, I have fear. That’s a noun. Or I could say, I fear, that’s a verb. So they’re basically the same word, but not so just upon how you use it.

But one of them, Phobos, that’s what Brother Tom mentioned. Phobos, like a phobia. You know, it means fear, but the other one, 5399 verb, which is. I think they could have given a deeper meaning to 5,401 Phobos, but 5,399 they did. They say awe or revere.

So I think even in our English language, we use the word fear both ways. Actually afraid of something, or I reverence and respect. So I think in the Scripture it could be either way, and I think most of the time when we Think about God, it’s really respect and reverence. But it is true also that sometimes it is simply we should be, well, we should fear doing something wrong before our all powerful heavenly Father.

That’s all right, very good, and you know, when I looked at the, the word phobos, you know, sometimes in strongs they’ll have little phrases below and the last phrase on that was reverence is for one’s husband. So it’s a respect, a deep respect. When I look at the era, the last phrase was and fear of God. Respect, reverence and piety.

And, and so I think these specifically say, you know, in reference to God, it is a respect and, and piety towards him. You know, as I think about it, let’s think about our universe. Let’s say we’re in another galaxy far, far away and we look at Earth. First of all, it’s going to be almost impossible to even see Earth because it’s so far away and so minuscule, and then we think about the Earth and think about, let’s walk around the entire Earth.

Well, that would take a long time. That’s tremendously large. Let’s think about the number of people on Earth, billions of people, and then let’s think about God talking to us as individuals and saying, I’d like you to join my family. When we think about it in scale like that, it shows how insignificant we are in respect to God.

And that causes really this awe, fear, this respect that the Lord has looked at us and said, there’s something I want there. Even though you are miniscule in compared to the size of the universe and you’re minuscule in numbers, yet you’re very special, and that should give us a special awe, shouldn’t it? All right, any other thoughts on that?

If not, we’ll go on to our second part, which is we’re gonna, we’re gonna look at a little more detail here, which is why fear of the Lord is important to us, why fear of the Lord is important to us, and we’re going to, to read this according to a couple of different versions and maybe each of us could pick a version and, and read it, and our first scripture is going to be Proverbs 1:17, and I’m going to read it according to the amplified version and the rest of you can find other versions you’d like to read.

The reverence and worship of fear of God of the Lord is the beginning of the principle and choice part of knowledge. It is a starting point in its essence. But fools despise skillfully and godly Wisdom, instruction and discipline. So this is saying this is the beginning of knowledge. Do any of you have another translation you’d like to read?

That’s Proverbs, chapter one, verse seven.

Just go ahead and read. Well, the NIV says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Okay, Any others?

Go ahead, David. Well, I, I Since you asked for various ones, I called up Bible Hub and I’ve got Berean Standard Bible. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline. Berean Literal. The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge.

That’s very similar. So I guess the point is that if you respect and revere the Heavenly Father, that’s the beginning, a step of learning, progressing and developing in your respect for the Heavenly Father. But you first have to reverence and recognize his status, and once you do, then you can proceed. Now, if Adam and Eve had feared and reverenced God, I’m sure they did.

But if they had done so more earnestly, they wouldn’t have made the slip that they did. So for us, we’re already in sin. We already start as a defiled person, and so the beginning of reverence and appreciation for God begins our path to rectifying that and to becoming more identified with his principles. Okay, Jim, your thoughts?

I might just as well add the RVIC on that. The awe of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge, or is a beginning of knowledge and also the alternative translation a chief part of knowledge, and I think there’s a practical way in which that applies. Ask the atheist. How did life begin?

I think it’s a Canadian astronomer that’s now in West Covina, and he has calculated by random chance that all of the physical constants and things should be just right in the universe to make life sustainable, intelligent life sustainable, anywhere in the universe. One chance in 10 to the 217 power, and there’s only about 10 to the 80th atoms in the whole universe.

But going beyond that, Dr. James Tour of Rice University in Houston has said that if you had a cell membrane and somehow you got all of the 250 or so proteins that were necessary for life, and somehow you got them into the cell membrane, the chance of getting them in the right order is 1 chance in 10 to the 79 billion power.

Now, what’s the chances of those things getting into the cell membrane in the first place? Well, if you take a living cell, and I’ve seen this done. Put it under the microscope, put a pin prick in it, and you just watch all the proteins come spewing out of it. So they won’t randomly come into that cell membrane because it would violate the second law of thermodynamics.

The chances are identically zero.

Right. So the chances of life just occurring are greater than many times greater magnitudes greater than all of the atoms in the known universe.

So that’s kind of the atheist stories, and what do we see in the world today? What’s the opinion of and, and should we be surprised that people in churchianity don’t understand or have a knowledge of God and His plans and purposes? What do you think?

It’s the beginning of knowledge. Right, and the Lord says he is the rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. But what he’s saying right here is the prerequisite is reverential fear. You can’t even get close to understanding unless you reverentially fear the Lord, respect Him, and then you seek him out.

And then he also has to know that you’re capable of fulfilling your vow, so he has to select you as well. So it should be no surprise to us that those in churchianity have all these different thoughts that there are so many different, quote, truths that they have. But we realize there is one truth. Right. Any other thoughts on this?

So this is approaching God.

Our second premise is the fear. Okay, go ahead. I think John did, had a, did have a comment and I’d like to follow up with him after that. Okay, go ahead. I was just gonna say not among the scriptures that were suggested to us, but it made me search for and find Proverbs 9, 10, which I find even, you know, I think even more important than Proverbs 1, 7.

And that is the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and of course, wisdom is even more important than knowledge. It’s learning how to put knowledge to work in a positive way. So Proverbs 9, 10 is important too. Just wanted to add that.

Yeah. So the foundation stone is knowledge, but the ultimate fruitage is wisdom. Yes, David? Well, the numbers that Jim has mentioned, I, I, my mind has been there before, probably because I’ve read things Jim has written before and it’s phenomenal. But I think it’s also true and amazes me that people, scientists aren’t a little bit more assertive and, and rec, I should say, recognizing these problems, the number of atoms in the universe is not adequate to account for any statistical possibility.

Now there’s one way that they get around it. It’s a very poor way, and they say, well, there’s an infinite number of universes. Multiverse, Multiverse, and he, okay, show me any.

Show me any evidence for that. No, no, you can’t, because you’re only in this. It is so spectacular. It just, It’s. It’s stunning.

So the narrative of actually deciding there is no intelligence that manages this is very, very difficult. Now, the other point I wanted to ask. Brother Jim said chief part or beginning of. I think he’s saying that, see, the knowledge of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. What was it?

The fear of the Lord. Fear of the Lord. Fear of the Lord. Is that the chief part or the beginning? I can understand the chief part sometimes is the first part, but sometimes that also is beginning.

So I’m just wondering which of those two thoughts Brother Jim thinks is most precise. Although either one of them are good. Yeah. I don’t have a strong feeling one way or the other, because either way it can be translated.

The reason this engages my attention is because there’s mention about Michael in the Book of Daniel. That is, some translations say one of the chief princes, and others say first of the chief princes. Makes a big difference to me there. I think it’s first chief part. So I just wondered what Jim had to say.

But that’s all. Nothing to press. I will add one more thing, though. James Tour, the one. He’s a synthetic organic chemist, and he says that there are people that are willing to debate with him about creation, but he says not one of them is an organic chemist.

They know their beat. Right, and the other scientists that are more and more Christian is astrophysicists, because as they look out there and they see the complexity and the symmetry and the. The laws of motion, they realize this is not just a coincidence.

All right, let’s go on to our. Our next major thought. The fear of the Lord will cause one to hate evil. So we. We’ve gotten in the front door.

We get. We get knowledge. Ultimately, if the Lord blesses us, we get wisdom, and now what do we. How do we know that fear of the Lord will cause one to hate evil?

And we’ve got a number of Scriptures, Proverbs 8, 13, Proverbs 16, 6, and Proverbs 19:23 are quoted. But of course, there are many others as well. Who’d like to get us started there? And you can read any one of these or of the translation of your choice. Who’d like to get us started there?

Well, I Could get us started in just one thing first, and that is where it says will cause one to hate evil. What is the evil? It’s not identical to the word sin. The evil is the hurt.

So the fear of the Lord will cause one to hate hurt.

Okay, now, Proverbs 8:13. This is New Living Translation. All who fear the Lord will hate evil. Therefore I hate pride and arrogance and corruption and perverse speech. That was New Living Translation.

There may be some others out there that you would like to read. I mean, we’ve got our other verses as well. What is this saying about our. About what? This fear.

How does it transform our characters? If we now we could say disdain or hate evil and this like the next logical thing that happens in our progression.

Go ahead.

You’re muted, David.

Thank you. Sorry. Can I read 16:6 as well? That’s what you have on your list. It says, by mercy and truth, iniquity is purged.

And by the fear of Jehovah, men depart from evil. Well, if they recognize that Jehovah is going to be a. A judge is going to require judgment for all evil. If somebody doesn’t recognize that, why would they be a fear? But if you do recognize there is God and he is a God of principle and godliness and he’s has the ability and, and the.

I don’t know where that’s coming from, but the ability and the purpose to finally purge sin, well, then men will depart from evil. Now, I think in the kingdom, when people come back, it’s going to be obvious there is a God because people are being raised all over the place. I think this will immediately change the whole structure of the world. That is for people that are atheists or not God or not involved with that kind of thinking, this will tell them, okay, that was a huge mistake. There is a God and he’s raised the ancient worthies that are good people.

And Jesus was. Okay, that’ll just set the standard all over again. Satan will be completely removed, bound, and I think it just, it was changed things remarkably. That’s all.

Okay, Jim or Tom, any thoughts? Well, with the thought that Jim presented of evil meaning hurt, I think if we find. Well, we should find that we are growing into God’s and Jesus’s perspective on humanity. That God so loved the world that he gave his son. Jesus so loved the world that he gave his life, that we would despise those things that cause people hurt.

Just from God’s perspective. So having reverence for the things that God has reverence for and care for. We should be distressed by those things that cause people hurt. Very good, Jim, Any thoughts? Just to add that the awe of the Lord will cause one to hate hurt.

That if we don’t want the Lord to hurt us, then we should do what his law says and not hurt others.

Okay, and I think, you know, our first scripture was about how do we approach God? And there’s only one way. It’s through reverential fear. Can’t even get.

That’s. That’s as they say in the. If we were at college, that’s a prerequisite. You’re not getting in unless that’s the case, and now we’re talking about understanding and developing a character.

And what we’re talking about really is finding evil to be corrosive to our, to our feelings. I don’t know how many of you I have been selective on how I watch and get my news now because it is corrosive. There’s lying, cheating, stealing, vulgarity, immorality. It’s all out there, and that’s quote, the norm now.

In fact, you know, it’s kind of interesting when we look at politics in particular, we have politicians in lead positions that are clearly immoral and unrepentant, and that is to me is, is corrosive because that’s not the way things should be or have been in the past. It’s part of the tearing down process. I understand that, and that tearing down is going really well right now.

And that’s part of the day of his preparation that we’re in, as brother Jim spoke of. But we should find that evil is, makes us uncomfortable.

It is corrosive when we come in contact with it. Any other thoughts on that one? You kind of reminded me of one of the fellows that worked that was studying to be a lawyer, and he said, fella says to him, well, that’s not legal. He says legal is whatever you can get away with.

And that is the mentality now in so much of the political world. Right? And this is not a left or right thing either. It’s. If we look at our politics, it’s across the board.

So, you know, and I was recently in Europe and we found that the political climate there is also very corrosive. Lots of anti Semitism and anti Muslim sentiment. I was in France, Germany and Austria and this was just from the news I heard on the radio. You know, I was not seeking it out. So this is not just a thing here in the United States, it’s worldwide.

It’s occurring in Spain and Portugal as well, as well as the UK and other countries.

So we should find this corrosive. Brother Tao, Just an image that is burned in my brain along the lines of this idea of hurting people. An image that has burned into my brain is when there was the Boston Marathon bombing. I don’t remember how many years back that was now, but there was a little boy who was, I don’t know, 6, 7, 8 years old who was one of the people killed, and they, in reporting they had this sign, this picture of this boy holding a sign that he had written out for some occasion in the past that says no more hurting people.

There’s a little boy campaigning for that idea and his life was taken. But it. That slogan is burned into my brain, that image. Okay. Yeah.

So as we’re exposed to evil, we should be very uncomfortable with. Should. Should be repulsive to us. That’s really an indication that we’re putting on Christ, right. That we’re taking on his characteristics versus the characteristics of the world.

Our next point is that fear of the Lord will prolong life, and I’m going to read it’s. We’re going to read Proverbs 10:27, and I’m going to read according to Amplified. The reverent and worshipful fear of the Lord prolongs one day one’s days, but the years of the wicked shall be made short.

And we also have Proverbs 14:27. Anyone else have another version of that they would like to read? And then we’ll take comments.

ASV has the fear of Jehovah is a fountain of life, that one may depart from the snares of death.

Okay, I like that. Very, very good, and Brother Bob, as I was looking at those two scriptures in my Bible, one of them cross referenced me to Proverbs 3:1, 2, Proverbs 3:1 and 2 says, My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart, for they will prolong your life many years and bring you peace and prosperity.

Okay. Do we see any tangible evidence of this amongst the Lord’s people?

Belonging of life.

And look at the obituaries in the dawn.

Yeah, and look at the participant list here as well.

You know, we have. Not that all Bible students live long lives, but I think we have a legacy of long life, and it’s, it’s, it’s grabbing really onto this promise and demonstrating it in a very tangible way, isn’t it?

Why would reverential fear of the Lord prolong one’s life? What’s the correlation there? Any thoughts I can offer one suggestion, and that is, if I did not have awe of the Lord, I might be ready to beat up on the other guy. But then what happens when he takes revenge on me?

Okay, good thought. David. Tom. David, go ahead. Well, this is an odd scripture to me because, you know, sometimes people that are people of faith have been known to be killed for their faith.

You know, I. I actually receive emails almost every day about martyrs in the world today, in different countries, and it surprises me. So it doesn’t always work that a diligence to God is going to prolong today’s life, but it will prolong ultimate life because it will give you everlasting life. So I, I wonder a little bit about. I mean, I’m looking at Proverbs. This is Proverbs 10:27.

The fear of the Lord prolongeth days. Well, ultimately, of course it will. But you know, who was the first martyr? That was Stephen, and after him was James.

I suspect neither one of them were very old at the time. Jesus was 33 when he died. So I don’t know if this is really telling you that if you act godly, you will probably physically live longer. Maybe, maybe. I suppose if you’re not persecuted, you would live longer.

But maybe it has a deeper point about the longevity forever if you’re going to be godly in the big sense. Now, it is true that King David lived about 70 and Solomon lived. He reigned for 40 years.

But there were some very bad people that lived long. So that’s. I kind of think maybe the big final point of this is your everlasting life if you’re going to be godly. Okay, so that’s one aspect of it. I think there is also a principle that if you live godly, that because of your beliefs and your actions and your priorities and your personality, that you will live longer.

I just looked up. The average male in the United states lives to 76.5 years.

The average female lives to 81.4. In our class, we have two that are over 100. We have a whole big clump in their 90s and a burgeoning clump that’s in their 80s. Men and women. So this is telling me, you know, part, part of this is a godly lifestyle will promote health.

That may lead to longevity. But as Brother David said, this is not to say that you’re not going to die of a disease. You’re not going to die in a car accident. That’s all in the Lord’s hands. But the principles are, if we follow Godly principles that it will promote longer life?

I think we can say that with certainty. Any other thoughts on that? Do you think maybe the thought might be the awe of the Lord will prolong life expectancy?

Go ahead. A. That would be compatible with what Bob said. Yeah, if you think about it. Okay, let’s just look at what are our priorities in life.

Is our priorities to go out and party on the weekends? Is our priority to have lots of toys? Is our priority to do. Do things that would cause us in the long term, excess stress?

Probably not. Right. In fact, we would say, you know, if you’re following in the footsteps of Jesus, these are not your priorities. The priorities are right where we are today, we’re at a convention discussing God’s word and reasoning with each other, and is the saying, because person perfect love casts out fear and we have the peace of God, Is there peace in the world right now?

From a stress standpoint, are the brethren more stressed in general than the Joe Public? Well, I think we’re much less stressed. Brother Tom. Yeah, I was going to say that I. I didn’t really have any thoughts on this because I, you know, I feel like by answering it in the way we have, you know, kind of, I think of, you know, a young mother, consecrated mother, who died from cancer young, and others like that, and it does not hold true for everyone.

But I think it depends perhaps on what our motivations for living are, and the one that, you know, is uppermost in my mind these days is of what service can I be to others? And, and I only pray each day that the Lord would give me whatever vitality is necessary to carry out the service he wants me still to do. I don’t ask for any more life than that.

Yeah. You know, I saw a video. There was a documentary on people that lived long lives, and you know what the secret sauce was? They’re focused on service to others.

That’s the key. Why is it so many men at the time, they retire, within a couple of years, they die? This is very common because they don’t have a purpose in life. If we are consecrated footstep followers, we have a purpose. We know what needs to get done.

And as Brother Tom said, we’re looking at what can we render unto the Lord today for all of his benefits towards me? Right, and so I have this question asked to me. I retired in 2020, and people say, well, what do you do with yourself? And then I proceed to tell them, is there any one of us that doesn’t have anything to do that doesn’t feel a sense of urgency.

Even if it’s just that we pray for others, Even if it’s just that we are in service. Maybe we write thank you notes or, you know, whatever that service might be. We all have a purpose in life, and that’s the thing that will kill you from a long life standpoint is if you don’t know what to do if you sit around and watch TV all day because you don’t have a purpose in life. We have a clear purpose.

We have a clear mission statement. We know what needs to get done, and I find with myself, it gives me a sense of urgency. I don’t have much time left. You know, based on the average, I’m about three years out or four years out, average right now.

I’m not going to live by that statistic. But I do realize that the Lord wants us to have a sense of urgency to make our calling and election sure, to witness unto the world, you know, Matthew 24, going to all nations and witness. What can we do to do that? How can we serve the brethren? That’s what our focus is.

You know, I saw wonderful examples of that at general convention. When you look at general convention, it’s a delight. I’m sure that the Lord smiles on it just like any convention because it’s service to the brethren. It’s building each other up, it’s edifying each other. That’s our purpose, to profess that gospel of the kingdom.

Okay, Bob, if I could just add now that you put me 10 more than 10 years over the limit.

Like to suggest Exodus, chapter 15, verse 26.

I’ll read it. Exodus 15:26, and he that would be Jehovah said, if thou will diligently hearken to the voice of Jehovah, thy God and will do that which is right in his eyes, and will give ear to his commandments and keep all his statutes, I will put none of the diseases upon thee which I have put upon the Egyptians.

Okay, and that was the case, wasn’t it? Look at the standards, the. What should we say, dietary standards in the Mosaic Law, the cleanliness standards. An example of that was given in Europe at the time of the plague that Jews were living much longer than the population.

They were not so affected by it, and it’s the cleanliness provisions of the Mosaic Law that kept them from it. Yeah, very good. Okay, we’re going to go on to our next point. Was that fear of the Lord will provide strong confidence.

And the scripture we have quoted is Proverbs, chapter 14, verse 26. I’m going to read it again. According to the amplified. In the reverent and worshipful fear of the Lord, there is strong confidence, and his children shall always have a place of refuge. So that’s kind of a split Scripture, isn’t it?

Gives us strong confidence and provides refuge. Any other translations we’d like to read?

Today’s English version says, reverence for the Lord gives confidence and security to a man and his family.

Okay.

You know, when we have confidence means we have surety, right? We have faith. We are not anxious and nervous. We’ve seen so many of our brethren that go through severe trials, severe trials with disease, with issues in family, with issues at work, with financial issues, and yet they stay focused and confident in their path.

What is it they say? The Lord will provide formula 8 28, Romans 8:28. All things work together for good, for the called according to his purpose. Any other thoughts on confidence? Jim, you look like you’re about to say something.

Okay. Emil Hersher used to quote, and trouble small, and TROUBLES Great. Romans 8 and 28.

But they, and for me, that strong confidence reminds me that there is nothing that can happen that the resurrection can’t cure. Nice, right? God’s kingdom is the solution to all of the world’s problems, and that’s, you know, we’re not focused on the kingdoms of this world.

We’re watching them, and that’s a good thing to do, to know where we are. But we’re not focused on them because of God’s promises, and that’s the wonderful message that we can give out as well, isn’t it, Really, Bob? Yeah, go ahead, Brother David.

Well, you know, Jesus, of course, was entirely faithful to the heavenly Father, and before he died, he. He didn’t say, well, if it all works. Well, he told that in John 14, he says, I’m going to go away and prepare a place for you, and I’ll come back, and he was very confident because he knew he had been faithful and devoted.

There’s a scripture earlier than that when he is on the last day of his public ministry. Excuse me. Last week of his public ministry, he rides into Jerusalem and he’s in claim king by the crowds, and then he said, what shall I say? Father saved me from this hour?

Well, he’s writing into Jerusalem on the tenth day of Nice, and when the passover lamb is selected, he know he’s going to die four days later on the 14th. So he says, what shall I say, Father, save me unto this. For this, from this hour but for this purpose, I came to this hour. I actually think he probably said that not because he himself was feeling some anxiety, but because he was trying to let other people know that he is going to die soon and he’s not going to ask for redemption from this.

It’s his task at hand. So my point here is simply that if we’re confident in what we’re doing with the Heavenly Father, then we know whatever circumstance falls our way, it’s going to be ultimately overruled and for our benefit. However, there are times in my life when I realize I have not done what’s right and good, and then I think, okay, now I’ve got to change my conduct and I’ve got to be more disciplined and more earnest. Sometimes that’s the case, sometimes it’s not.

I remember when Brother Russell talked about how we should conduct our lives and talked about the morning resolve, and he used words that suggested that he wasn’t always deficient, but he had to be prepared if he was. I mean, we’re all imperfect, but I think he was a very earnest person that day by day did whatever he could do to be faithful. If we do that, then we’re going to be more confident, and therefore, verse 26, the fear of the Lord is strong confidence, but we do have weaknesses, and when that happens, our confidence may slip and we have to ask the Lord for forgiveness and perhaps experiences that will rectify our deficiencies. But the fear of the Lord.

Yes, it’s strong confidence when we know we’re doing properly. Okay, so from what I’m hearing you say, if we find that our confidence is flagging or wavering, what should that be an indication of that we should do? How do we get that back?

Well, if you have to point this to me, my answer is if we feel that our conduct is reasonably good and godly, then we should not have that fear.

Okay. Any other thoughts? When I realize my conduct is not as good as it should be, then I realize I’d better improve. So there is some kind of concern. Yeah, well, you know, as with this, fear is with the understanding that we are fallen and that we are imperfect and that we will fail.

We will fail, and the Lord tells us that right up front. The. The. The scriptures are complete with failures.

You know, it’s interesting because the Bible doesn’t hide anything, does it? All of the sins and failures are there, but it’s a consistent message of redemption and recovery, and that’s the important thing. Brother Odin has broken in on a phone. Can we, Brother Oden, can you put your hand down?

This is not a question meeting.

Okay, Brother Tom, continue. I mean, I can testify, and I’ve testified repeatedly about some of my earlier experiences and their. Of living many years, even after consecrated to the Lord, without confidence because of physical depression, and it’s not a pleasant way to live. But there are those among the Lord’s people in the world who have had that experience.

And it’s been well treated for years, and it is a better way to live when you can have some confidence. But there are many people who struggle with that, and the answer can be prayer and study. It can also sometimes mean some treatment from professional people.

I’ll just put that in that confidence is what the Lord would have us. There’s a really good scripture in Hebrews, maybe the tenth chapter, about if our hearts condemn us, but if our hearts don’t condemn us, and that’s implied to be the better way to live.

And so I just point that out, that many struggle with having that confidence, and I think the Lord desires us to have that kind of confidence in his faithfulness. Yeah, I think that’s a real key point. The Lord desires that we have confidence, but not everybody will have strong confidence, and there are mental issues and physiological issues and circumstances.

You know, one of the things we know about from childbearing is postpartum depression. So the woman has a beautiful baby. It’s what she wanted. It’s everything she wanted, and she’s depressed.

It makes no sense at all, and yet it is a very real sickness, and that reminds me back to, you know, these are not absolutes, but what the Lord desires. But there’s nothing under the sun that the Church collectively will not experience. Nothing.

And that’s necessary. That’s necessary if we’re to become sympathetic high priests, and you might say to me, well, Brother Bob, the Brethren have not been involved. Nobody’s been involved with someone who has aids. That would be incorrect.

We know of instances where, you know, one of the children of the Brethren got aids. So there’s nothing that the Church is not going to experience directly or indirectly, and this is part of it. Brother Jim, did you have any thought on this? No.

Though I do see that Brother Costelli put Psalms 3:7 in the chat. So I’ll go ahead and read it, if I may be not wise. In thine own eyes fear Jehovah and depart from evil. Yeah. So the confidence is not in ourselves, but in the Lord and being his agency.

Otherwise it would turn to pride, wouldn’t it? Okay. Our Next thought is the fear of the Lord is the way to riches and honor. Ooh, I, I this one we need to talk about. I’m going to read Proverbs 22:4 in the Amplified.

The reward of humility and the reverent worship and fear of the Lord is riches and honor and life.

How do we, how do we harmonize that?

Brother David, get us started. Well, you know, when I think back to Solomon, Solomon was humble when he started his ministry and he could ask anything of the Lord, and he asked for wisdom, and God said, that’s remarkable. That’s wonderful.

I’m going to give you wisdom and riches, and Solomon was probably the wealthiest king that lived. So that does have an apt application in the Old Testament. Sometimes I do even think sometimes with the brethren, not always. But I know of a young man who worked at the dawn when he was 18, didn’t even go to college, and he worked there.

And he was quite poor when he got married. He’s still quite poor, and then he founded a business and did quite well. That was my father. I’ve often thought about that.

I’ve often thought about his earnest desire to serve rather than to go make money when he had a family to support. Now it’s an obligation, and the Lord blessed him richly. Now there’s another man I think of the same way. That was the brother, that was the chief elder in Los Angeles, as I would call him, Brother Jim Parkins, can, can remind me of his name, that he was very. Russell.

Russell Pollack. Thank you. He’s in my mind. I see his image, but names are slipping me, and I know that he, when he was young, he also used to knock on doors and do witness service very actively.

But I don’t know how rich he was when he did that. I would guess pretty poor. Yes. But later in life he had to work and he got a job, and not only did he do well, but he had many other breath.

Some, some other, but I won’t say many, but some other brethren of note working for him. So those are two examples that I think of that maybe this has some meaning. However, when I was consecrated at the age of 16, I never gave a thought to getting rich because thinking that God is going to make me rich if I do, his will wasn’t even on the agenda. So I kind of think that this does have some application, but it’s not the thing that’s promised to us. But God will supervise our experiences appropriately.

That’s all.

Yeah. The other thing is, you know, are we talking about physical riches. We understand that, you know, if we look at the brethren, we have some that are very modestly endowed and some that, you know, are. Have no worries financially. I think that’s done for a purpose.

If you watch those who are rightly exercised will use those resources in service to the truth and the brethren, and you know, we see that with like general convention on the west coast, for us that was a distance, we were adequately endowed that we could make that trip so that we could be of service to the brethren.

So. But this kind of smacks of prosperity gospel. This is one of them that they will state, and what would be our response to that? Well, if we are faithful and join the divine family.

Our Father owns the cattle on a thousand hills, right? Yeah. He’s going to give us, you know, when we look at the glory, honor and immortality, there is no greater gift than immortality. Because once you have it, there’s all you can be is of service, of service. Now if you got it and you didn’t have the correct character, you could disrupt God’s entire plan.

But we understand he knows the end from the beginning and won’t allow that to happen. But all those with immortality, all they can do is give. Period. Brother Tom? Well, maybe in the contrast for the prosperity gospel is Psalm 73:3 and 12.

Psalm 73:3 and verse 12. Those verses say, for I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked, and this is what the wicked are like. Always carefree, they increase in wealth. So an increase in wealth and earthly fortune does not necessarily mean that you are a faithful person to God and being blessed by this proverb, scripture.

Okay, so we’ve got some questions here. Without fear of the Lord, do we close ourselves to the treasures of God’s wisdom and knowledge without fear of the wall, Lord?

Yeah, we would probably be focused on wealth and wealth accumulation or knowledge or other pursuits in the world. Right? Power. Power, yeah. Might we flirt with evil and then be corrupted by it without fear of the Lord?

And we have to know who our master is, Brother David? Yes. I would say yes. If we flirt with evil, we will be corrupted by it. No question.

I put that as a positive. Yes to the first question. Do we close ourselves to the treasures of God’s wisdom and knowledge without fear of the Lord? My answer to that was a little different. It was.

Maybe I say that because, you know, some of us have a heritage in the truth, that we know what the truth is. If we Judas knew what was right, he’d made a Bad, bad decision. He felt so bad afterwards he took his own life. But he still knew that Jesus was God’s son, in my opinion. Okay, so.

So I would say maybe to the first, but definitely to the second. If we flirt with evil, we will be corrupted by it. Okay, third question. Will we fail to know the love of God? Could I interject something in between.

Joe? Go ahead. Can anything be to clear conscience?

Good point, good point.

Okay. Can we understand the love of God without reverential fear of. Of the Lord?

I have a positive no on that one. I’ve got a no as well. Yeah. After all, how can you learn to love somebody if you don’t know them? Yeah.

Will we lack motivation to repent and turn to God without reverential respect?

Yeah. If we think we’re doing pretty good. We’re like the Pharisees, right? What do you think, David? I put a baby there.

Will we lack the motivation to repent and turn to God? I put a maybe, but what you said is, is really better. Without the fear of the Lord, we won’t have the right motivation. But sometimes, you know, when people get really deep in despair and sin, maybe they’re. They turn because they just feel the burden of it and then they begin to think more about heavenly wisdom and God and then they turn.

So that’s why I’d say maybe. But. But sometimes even the depth can turn our attention and then push us back into the fear of the Lord. Okay. I’m reminded in an expression from wartime, there are no atheists in the foxholes.

That’s true. That’s true. We’re going to spend our last five minutes or so with the question of how do we develop fear of the Lord? How do we develop fear of the Lord? If it’s such an important thing and we need to maintain it and develop it, how do we develop it?

And then we’ve been given a whole number of scriptures here. Perhaps you can just read one and then bring out some points you’d like to on it.

First scripture we had was 1st Peter 3, 15. I’m going to read it according to amplified again. But in your heart, set Christ apart as holy and acknowledge him as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you. But do it courteously and respectfully.

That’s one of the ways.

What other ways do we develop and maintain reverential fear of the Lord? For the gym, keep our eyes open and just keep in mind that practice makes perfect. Okay? Brother David, you had your hand up. Yeah, I had three.

Remember our faults. I’m going to change that. Remember my faults, remember my corrections and remember good examples. That’s all. Okay.

Brother Tom. I had in regard to the idea of awe that we should study his works of creation, his glorious works, and study the design of living things and it will create fear or reverence for the Lord. I also had study his word and character. Who else is like Him? An important point related to the second scripture.

We were given the Acts 10, Acts 10, 34 and 35. I’ll read that from NIV. Then Peter began to speak. I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism, but accepts men from every nation who fear or revere him and do what is right, and I said, I think when we recognize that part of reverence for the Lord is copying his humility, if we are humble, that will keep us from showing favoritism.

And it will make us so deeply happy that he has offered redemption to and healing to every individual human being who has ever lived, and one of the favorite quotes that I have acquired is from a man by the name of Paul Farmer, and he says the idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that is wrong with the world, and it’s when we look at others as being less than ourselves, that’s. That’s a root and it and a basis for justifying unrighteous actions toward them.

All right, very good. I’ve got one from Colossians 2:7. I’m going to read it. According to the new living. Let your roots grow down into him and let your lives be built on Him.

Then your faith will grow strong and the truths you were taught and you will overflow with thankfulness, and that is ever so important. You know, it reminds me of what I consider to be the most important meeting that we have, the testimony meeting. Because there we get to know our brethren. We get to understand their frailties, failures and triumphs.

And it is a really like a therapy session. For it isn’t motivates us. It causes us to pray and help our brethren. It gets us involved, and that’s what the Lord wants.

You know, he tells us to forsake not the assembling of ourselves together. That’s another key. There’s no solo performances here. We’re part of the body, and even though we make our own personal calling, election, sure.

We’re. We’re entrusted with helping one another and to study, to show ourselves. Approved.

We have just less than a minute Any other thoughts you’d like to close with on this subject, Brother David? Well, you have one more question here. Can I just read it and give a quick thought? Sure. Apply lessons from discussion above to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I had three thoughts. Focus on self correction, be thankful for the progress that we do see, and thirdly, be encouraging to others. Okay.

I’ll suggest that if you see a good example, follow it. If you don’t see a good example, set one. Oh, that’s very good. Any final thoughts, Brother Tom?

I was. I was looking at some commentaries on this, and one of the comments was it should the fear and trembling. It should be done with the most earnest concern, with the awareness of the immensity of the interest that is at stake for us and for others. The immensity of the stakes. Yeah.

For us, it’s our eternal welfare. Yeah, and two quick scriptures that I had earlier in my notes. You know, we certainly know the mercy and kindness of our God. But I’ll just read the key verse, Hebrews 10:31.

It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of a living God. So there’s a reason to be very concerned about the judgment, and then first Corinthians 10:21 and 22. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons, too. You cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons.

Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he? So there is a reverential fear there to keep in mind as we try and apply these things and what the Lord has given us in the Scriptures and the examples from our brethren in. Yeah. In serving the Lord with fear and trembling.

I don’t think we could close this with any better statement, and we appreciate the time that we’ve had. I’ve appreciated our panelists and their insights.

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